The Realities of the Car Market with Niel Gioia
In this episode of Backseat Driver, I sit down with Neil Gioia, an experienced car salesman, to unpack the realities of today’s car market. We explore the challenges dealers face, from extended waiting times for new vehicles to the ripple effects of the ongoing semiconductor shortage. Neil provides insights into the surge in used car prices and the shifting dynamics caused by the rise of electric vehicles.
We also discuss the current lack of incentives for electric car buyers and examine the logistics and practicality of electric and hybrid cars. Looking ahead, Neil shares his thoughts on how the future of car buying is evolving in an ever-changing automotive industry. It’s an eye-opening discussion for anyone curious about today's challenges and opportunities shaping the car market.
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Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Yes, it's me, Mike Stone and this is the Backseat Driver podcast.
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Speaker A: -: Speaker A:I'd like to welcome back to the Backseat Driver, quite a regular guest, Mr.
Speaker A:Neil Hoyer.
Speaker A:Neil, welcome back to the Backseat Driver.
Speaker B:How you doing Mark?
Speaker B:You okay?
Speaker A:Now I'm not.
Speaker A:How do we describe you?
Speaker A:Because I mean you're a car salesman and at times you thought like you were to be avoided.
Speaker B:Bit harsh.
Speaker B:Bit harsh.
Speaker B:And I like to think I'm a professional.
Speaker A:But no, the one thing we keep seeing these days is in all the, you know, what was affectionately known as the E keys, the magazines and all the social media and everything else, all new cars are selling well, fork are queuing round the boat to buy an electric car, this, that and the other.
Speaker A:So with Neil being a man in the industry, he does this every day, he sells cars.
Speaker A:He knows more than for quite honest, the propaganda that is being put out.
Speaker A:So what is the state of the car market, both new and used?
Speaker B:I suppose it depends how you look at it.
Speaker B:If you, if you're a used car salesman, happy days.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you're a new car salesman, you're probably not going to stick around in a dealership very long.
Speaker B:Average order time for a car, brand new car now, regardless of what dealers tell you is approximately nine months.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:To nine months.
Speaker B:German cars, nine to 12 months.
Speaker B:I had a scolder customer that bought an Octavia off me estate.
Speaker B:He only waited to two years and two months.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker C:Did he wait?
Speaker B:He did.
Speaker B:Yeah, he did.
Speaker B:Because he was never ever going to buy that car at that price ever again.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, obviously it was price protected when we sold him the car.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It had every conceivable extra on it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's ended up saving about £12,000.
Speaker B:So why wouldn't you wait?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's getting a bit of a thing when you wait as long for a score as you do for a Morgan.
Speaker B:Hey, listen, it's been a long time since I've sold a new score after that escapade.
Speaker B:But, you know, you're probably looking at 9 to 12 months.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is a bit of a problem for new car dealers, really.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Allegedly there's no cars.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, because, I mean, they've said there's no chips for them because there's been rumors that certain of the Korean manufacturers are buying washing machines because the chips in the washing machines are the savers in the cars.
Speaker B:It was that.
Speaker B:Well, they do the same in PlayStations, Xboxes, you know, and the chip shortage and inverted bracket started with COVID because people were spending time at home.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, boredom sets in after you've re.
Speaker B:Re built your house three times, you know, redecorated and turned it, you know, so they were buying hi fi systems and TVs and.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:PlayStations.
Speaker B:PlayStations by the millions.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And not just in the UK, all over the world.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so that's when the shortage started.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then of course, you move along about 12 months.
Speaker B:And I think they've.
Speaker B:I wouldn't like to say the sole supplier of semiconductors, but their factory burnt down in Japan.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or was it China?
Speaker B:One or the other in the far eastern Asia.
Speaker A:So all of a sudden there was a severe short.
Speaker B:All of a sudden there was a severe shortage of semiconductors.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, which you think could be a bit of a problem for the manufacturers.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But what Covid and the semiconductor shortage highlighted was the old demand and supply.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, people want brand new cars, they can't get them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B: ce four, for example, between: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:They had a few months where they didn't turn a spanner.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And yet the commercial, One of the commercial vehicles went up £10,000 in that time, you know, so that's, you know, we're all conspiracy theorists, aren't we?
Speaker B:But, you know, but you see it, you know, and then there'll be an influx of cars that will come in and then there'll be a shortage for another six, seven months.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and the one thing this is doing is driving the value of used cars up, isn't it?
Speaker B:As we said last time.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because, you know, amazingly there's a lot of one year old cars that have come into the market.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so normally people who would buy a car on a PCP product.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they need to change it for whatever reason.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can't get new, you get the next best thing, which is six to 12 months old.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and that's what's been happening.
Speaker B:But again it filters down.
Speaker B:Used cars are more and more desirable and they're rocketed in price.
Speaker A:Every time I see I, I get a week.
Speaker A:It's actually weekly, but it's a monthly report from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders that tells me every month that the value of used cars is going up 1.7% and it's been going up 1.7% steadily for over 12 months.
Speaker B:Probably longer.
Speaker B: Probably since about: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I only have to drive, I mean on my travels I drive past a nice used car lot and it's interesting that the price of some of the cars, the sticker in the window, I can drive past three weeks after seeing that car at one price and the sticker price has changed.
Speaker A:It's gone up.
Speaker B:Supply and demand.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean it's quite rare now but during COVID lockdown that happened quite a lot.
Speaker B:People readjusting the prices.
Speaker C:Y.
Speaker B:You know, and all, all the big boys, you know, they, they, they tend to be within a few pounds of each other.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:With the used cars, you know, discount is nigh on impossible.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, so it's 15 grand.
Speaker A:It windscreen and 15 grand is that's what it is.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker B:And they're selling less cars but making more and more and more profit.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and the one thing you were saying before we went on air is now that dealerships don't fill the showrooms up because they're not buying the cars.
Speaker A:Somebody orders a car and it comes from a central pool.
Speaker B:Well, no, the buying process is still the same.
Speaker B:So you order a car.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, they obviously process it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That car's yours.
Speaker B:But what there isn't is spare stock.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Whereas once, you know, you'd have like lots of demonstrators and stuff.
Speaker B:You know, your salesman, you're on the corner and you know, miraculously there's four or five, whatever there say you pick.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's none of that now.
Speaker B:They could pretty much demand dictate.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:What you can have.
Speaker A:Because that used to be the one thing you went somewhere and.
Speaker A:Well, we've got a demonstrator that's coming up.
Speaker A:Exactly what you want that'll be coming up for sale in two months time.
Speaker A:If you're prepared to wait two months you can have it at this discounted price because it'll only be three months old and it'll only run a couple of thousand miles.
Speaker A:I conclude the days of that have gone.
Speaker B:I, I would have thought so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean you're probably looking now.
Speaker B:A dealership would have to keep a demonstrator on for a minimum of six months.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know and they're highly audited as well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:So if that car's not there they want to know where it is because the dealerships don't own the cars.
Speaker B:They're all, they're on a thing called a stocking plan.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is like a mini overdraft on every car.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:So the dealership, you know, that's how they get the cash flow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so they get audited once a month or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah, whatever the finance company says.
Speaker B:And if that car's not there, it's like the Spanish Inquisition.
Speaker B:Where is it?
Speaker B:What's it doing?
Speaker B:Yeah, they have to prove where it is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it is.
Speaker A:And if they say they've sold it, it's a slap.
Speaker A:Andy's.
Speaker B:Oh it's more than that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:There's a lot of questions asked.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Slightly Spanish Inquisition.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:Thumb screws are out the job look.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and possible disciplinaries as well cuz they don't own the cars.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So just out of interest, what is selling at the moment?
Speaker A:I mean you sell, you, you sell car for living day in, day out.
Speaker A:What are people looking for these days?
Speaker B:People.
Speaker B:It's actually changed over the last 12 months because at one time, 12 months ago if there was a car available and it was free, they'd snap it up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then they'd sell the car for a profit.
Speaker B:But then they realized they'd have to wait a long time for another new car to get along.
Speaker B:Manufacturers are small increments but at the end of the day massive price hikes on cars.
Speaker A:Because I'll be quite honest, the one thing I've noticed of late when the number changes in the good old days when the letter changed but now the number changes on the registration number, you don't see anywhere near as many new cars about.
Speaker A:Unlike the change over day at one point in time used to go out and 1st of August when it used to change, used to get the letter change, used to be able to go out and see all These at midnight.
Speaker A:I used to be able to see all these lovely shiny new cars out and about.
Speaker A:Now you just don't see as many new cars.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Well, the reason they did that was because a lot of dealerships only worked for, for August.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:So they'd run, wouldn't say a loss, you know, but it was close to the bone.
Speaker B:And then August came along and all of a sudden they'd shell out 50, 100 cars, 200 car, you know, depending on the size of the dealership.
Speaker B:So what they did is they decided to spread it out by changing the registration twice, twice a year, 1st of March, 1st of September.
Speaker B:And it also works well for the manufacturers because they target people monthly, quarterly.
Speaker A:Biannually and annually instead of just once a year.
Speaker B:Once a year?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so you know, there's at one time people would buy cars in January because they wouldn't buy a car in December because it made a massive difference to the residual value of the Kia, you know, for the sake of a week or a day.
Speaker B:So people now buy the cars, spread right the way through.
Speaker B:But a lot of people don't want to wait for new cars.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and a lot of people don't want electric pushed down the throat neither.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm going to say that's a subject we'll be touching on very, very soon.
Speaker A:But I mean the other thing is as well, if you're looking at the price of a new car, okay, used cars are going up in value.
Speaker A:But you look at what you might buy new and then you look at what you might buy second hand and you can probably get a far nicer second hand or used car, a lot newer than you were anticipating for the price of the new car.
Speaker B:Well, that's the dilemma because three years ago I would have agreed.
Speaker B:Now a 12 month old car is probably the same price as a new car.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:There won't be much difference in it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so that, so then you have to take into account the amount of warranty that's been used.
Speaker B:Depreciation isn't going to be that much different.
Speaker B:So all of a sudden the 6 month old car and the 12 month old car becomes an option for people that are coming out of cars they've always, they've always had brand new.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's just a, an ever changing and in three months time it'll change all over again.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, but one thing you just mentioned, it's the fact, I mean you watch every television advert the other week I bought a classic car magazine and you got a free copy of the latest top 100 brand new cars.
Speaker A:And I think it took me all of about a minute to look at the brand new car ones because it was just full of electric cars.
Speaker A:And it's like you said, electric cars now are being rammed down people's throat.
Speaker A:But all is not rosy in the world of electric cars, is it?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Up to now, sales are down.
Speaker B:Brand new were down around 35% because.
Speaker A:They keep saying, oh, the queued around block for these electric guys.
Speaker A:And they're not.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And used car values?
Speaker B:Well, sales have gone down about 70% on electric.
Speaker B:On electric, you know, and a lot of it is.
Speaker B:There's just no incentification for people to buy new electric cars.
Speaker B:You go about three or four years ago, you could get £6,000 off the price of an electric car, which put it in line with a diesel or, you know, or a petrol car.
Speaker B:They've slowly whittled that down.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:All the grounds.
Speaker A:I mean, when they launched them and they said, oh, there's all these grants and a free charge return and everything else, and I said, from the word go, all these grants and incentives will be gradually eroded.
Speaker A:Well, they didn't gradually eroded them or erode them, they just did away with them pretty much.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So anything over a certain amount of price, I think it's about 32 and a half thousand pounds.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Gets no incentive.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And anything below that I think you get.
Speaker B:Is it two and a half thousand pounds now?
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm unsure because it's probably two years since I've sold an electric car.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, through.
Speaker B:Through the broker network.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I mean, like one example you gave me was the Nissan Leaf and Nissan Leaf, one of your clients wanted to trade in a Nissan Leaf, which is an electric car.
Speaker A:You wanted to go back to an internal combustion engine.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you had to.
Speaker A:You had to basically scrap the deal.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:So we had a Nissan Leaf, which was a 71 plate.
Speaker B:So it wasn't 12 months old.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Done 8,000 miles.
Speaker B:And when we originally valued the car, it was just short of £30,000.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Move forward three months, it was valued at £19,000.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it had lost a third of its value.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:In literally 60 days.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's.
Speaker B:You just can't do that.
Speaker B:So we.
Speaker B:We had to back out of the deal.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:What did the client say?
Speaker B:He wasn't happy.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:But, you know, we said to everybody do your due diligence.
Speaker B:You know, if we're wrong, we're wrong.
Speaker B:But you know, he tried selling it to all the third part, you know, the third party buyers.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm just not going to name, you know and the one that offered the most money just, they ended up offering him the, the least.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so it's, it's a, it's.
Speaker A:A scary thing because this is having a knock on effect because most cars nowadays to my knowledge tend to be leased or whatever.
Speaker A:People don't buy cars like what they used to do.
Speaker B:No, some, some people just don't want to own the cars which is great.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:If you've got.
Speaker A:Plus.
Speaker A:Oh it's a bit like renting your telly.
Speaker A:I mean I rent my television for the simple reason every two years I can add, I can, I can update it for next to no additional costs.
Speaker A:So I always have a lovely up to date television.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But the problem is you were saying a lot of these electric cars that are coming back in off lease or PCP or whatever, there's now, there's now no home for them, isn't it?
Speaker B:No, there's a lot of leasing companies now where when they get to the point of disposal they go through the auctions.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And because that's always been one of those things, I used to know people who used to buy and sell cars from the auctions and the, oh, I've got to go to such a place on Thursday night because all the lease vehicles are coming through and that's what they used to do.
Speaker A:They used to get them at a good price, service them, do whatever to them and sell them back on at a good price at the customer but still make a nice little profit out of them.
Speaker B:Well now a lot of the leasing is, have pulled all the electric used electric cars out.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because they've had 33, 35% of the value wiped out of them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So they stand to make a massive loss.
Speaker A:Well, bye bye.
Speaker A:It's millions they will be losing.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the as it sounds now there are electric ex fleet vehicles.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That are just sat there that they can't sell.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Until they readjust all the values.
Speaker B:And the problem is the people that run the valuations saying it's, it's bang on, you know, it's what they are.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And unfortunately they, they, they work with, they have a magic ball, a magic crystal ball which tells them what the car is going to be worth.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Three or four years time and unfortunately they didn't change the batteries on it, you know, so, you know, it failed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of electric cars out there that just aren't turning a wheel.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because they're going to financially ruin a lot of lease companies.
Speaker A:Well, the other thing is.
Speaker A:Well, as well, if you have an electric light and be it a car or whatever, if you don't use it for a long while, it can have a very detrimental effect on its batteries.
Speaker B:It can do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, they have again, go back to semiconductors and chips and stuff like that, which are designed to sort of eliminate that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, yeah, you're right, you know, if, if you don't, you.
Speaker B:If you haven't plugged in an electrical component that's got a lithium battery in it for a long time, it's not going to work.
Speaker B:So all of a sudden you've got a 500 kilogram battery that's now the use in an ornament that you can't dispose of properly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's taken lots and lots of elements to make it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, is that car really greed?
Speaker A:Well, no, the other thing is, when you look at the.
Speaker A:At what's required to manufacture the batteries, the mining and salt, the lithium.
Speaker A:Lithium, the cobalt and everything else, it's far from being green.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it has been proven by scientists that the internal combustion engine car is actually far greener than the electric car.
Speaker A:The car in itself is green in its own way.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker B:The end product is.
Speaker A:The end product is.
Speaker A:But getting to the end product is far from.
Speaker A:But a lot of this information is being withheld or you can find it.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:You've got to go rooting around for it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so that.
Speaker B:That's the issue you've got with the electric cars and a lot of them are going to come to end of the life anyway, so sort of like the early leafs and stuff like that, you know.
Speaker B:How long's the leaf been out?
Speaker B:15 years, 20 years.
Speaker A:It's one of the earliest go.
Speaker A:I mean, electric cars have been out for over a hundred years, so they.
Speaker B:Were out before bushing and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:An electric car is nothing new.
Speaker A:I mean, I remember as a kid my milk was delivered in the morning by an electric mill fault.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which by the time it went back to the dairy at about 11 o'clock in morning, wasn't exactly progressing as a rapid rate of knots because it was getting flat.
Speaker A:But I mean, another example you've quoted is we might as well name the car is A Citroen.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, a hybrid.
Speaker A:Now you were saying the customer that bought the car had worked out that to go and visit their mother.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was a 30 mile round trip and the Citroen will do 33 miles on electricity without needing its engine.
Speaker A:In theory, as it worked out.
Speaker A:They don't do this, do they?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Unless you live in.
Speaker B:I suppose Amsterdam is probably the Lincolnshire in it, you know, where it's completely flat, there's no resistance.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Your temperature is over a certain.
Speaker A:Because you were saying, I mean.
Speaker A:And I found this.
Speaker A:I had a Tesla once on test and they lent it me in winter time and I could charge it up.
Speaker A:It would only take 85 charge because it was winter time.
Speaker A:And as soon as you unplugged it and set off, you watch your range deplete by about a quarter to a third.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker B:I mean the Peugeot itself was behaving, it was do.
Speaker B:And he was designed to do.
Speaker A:But of course the sixth ones are built by Persia.
Speaker A:Oh well, they're all built by Stellatis now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that again was down to miss selling by the person that sold the car.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, they saw an opportunity.
Speaker B:They, you know and they just, they said.
Speaker B:Yeah, they weren't lying.
Speaker B:It would do 36 miles on an electric charge.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But not a constant.
Speaker B:36 miles on a.
Speaker B:On a.
Speaker B:On a charge.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:On a run.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you know, do your own work people before you buy one.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, because like you said, it's like 15 degrees and above.
Speaker A:They do all right.
Speaker A:15 degrees and below.
Speaker A:They don't do all right.
Speaker B:No, it affects all the range and everything.
Speaker A:So how are they?
Speaker A:I mean, I don't.
Speaker A:It's like I've said with electric cars, the certain ones for certain purposes that I think are great.
Speaker A:I mean I'll.
Speaker A:Everybody says, what on do you need?
Speaker A:You go on and see an optician.
Speaker A:I like the little Citroen me, the new one, but that's a quadricycle.
Speaker A:It's technically not a car, but.
Speaker A:And it does 29 miles an hour.
Speaker A:And I can tell you now, you can't see this, but Mr.
Speaker A:Hoyer here, senor Hoyer is not exactly looking happy about this.
Speaker A:But technically I do nine miles a day to go from where I live to my mother's and back.
Speaker B:And it'll do it.
Speaker A:And it would do it.
Speaker A:And I would only need to charge it up once every two days or so.
Speaker A:The downside is between me and my mother, there's something called an Ill.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which will deplete its.
Speaker A:Its range abilities.
Speaker A:But having said that.
Speaker A:And these little cars charge off a 13amp plug and don't take that long to charge up.
Speaker A:Also for delivering things in city centres.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:Bring everything into the outskirts of the city, put the products, all the boxes and all the parcels in the back of a little electric van and let it trundle around the city centre, make it make a noise because you can't hear these things coming.
Speaker A:But to my mind that works well because I used to spend time in Munich and such like as dhl, tnt, all the other companies used to delivering the pedestrian zone in the big diesel Mercedes vans, the Volkswagen vans and yes, you could smell the diesel fumes going to electric.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:I think that is a good idea.
Speaker B:Well, a lot of the.
Speaker B:Even in London and places like that now, a lot of the couriers with the big trucks and stuff like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:They bought big electric vans purely for that reason.
Speaker B:So they might do 10 miles.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, there's a lot of the.
Speaker A:Big commercial electrics don't do well on range, do they?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:It's perfect, like you say, for doing that job.
Speaker B:You know, you load it up, you go around the Ulez zone and every other zone that they've got in London.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, but they're spending 50, 60,000 pounds on a PER van to be able to do that.
Speaker A:I read an article and it was actually the.
Speaker A:The GP or the post office.
Speaker A:I mean, you can never work out what that lot, what that lot's called these days.
Speaker A:But they were replacing their diesel Fiat 00 vans with electric Peugeot's.
Speaker A:One electric Peugeot van cost nearly three times the amount of a Fiat OO diesel.
Speaker A:It was doing nowhere near the range.
Speaker A:They were spending half their life being charged up, but for the sake of being seen to be green, they were doing this.
Speaker A:But they were trying to hide the fact of how much more money it was costing to do this and the fact they were getting less service out of their vehicle.
Speaker B:Well, the problem is that.
Speaker B:How do you put this?
Speaker B:They have their own charter all, you know, they have to be seen to be doing stuff, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:They have to do it.
Speaker B:You know, it's legislation, that's what it is.
Speaker B:But on the flip side, what happens to all the old diesel vehicles that they've got?
Speaker B:They end up coming up north.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, where we still appreciate a combustion engine.
Speaker B:And what I've noticed is used vehicle.
Speaker B:Used diesel vehicles are rocketing in price.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because people have done the electric and it's not giving them the range.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of electric cars are on the road because of the benefiting kind incentives that you get, you know, and you see which as we've.
Speaker A:Said, are being eroded.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm talking about tax purposes, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But a lot of electric cars are over £40,000.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So as it stands now, you have to pay the five year super tax, the years you two to six.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is 335 pounds.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:As of next year you've got to pay the 165 pound road tax, I believe.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I've been saying for a long, long time if you're driving it on the public road, you should be paid road tax.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:So all of a sudden people are realizing, you know, they're not getting the range.
Speaker B:You can't plan a trip abroad.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know you could, but you'd have to work out exactly where all your charging points are and everything like that.
Speaker B:And that's if they're working or if they're there.
Speaker A:I mean the other week I caught an example of a friend of mine who went to Scotland in an all electric car that he had on demonstration, went to a village because it had six charges and when he got there, no six charges because the company that were installing them hadn't got round to it.
Speaker A:But they put them on the website as being there.
Speaker A:He managed to get to another charger with just, just under a mile left.
Speaker B:Otherwise the old diesel truck would have been out.
Speaker A:Diesel truck.
Speaker A:So the generator in the bike would have been out.
Speaker A:I mean, how are you finding hybrids?
Speaker A:I mean I don't mind the hybrids, especially the self charging ones.
Speaker A:Kia do a great little on the Nero.
Speaker B:Yeah, Kia, Hyundai, which is the same company, Toyota, they've, they've done one for years, haven't you?
Speaker B:With the Prius and the Corolla.
Speaker B:We were doing really, really well until the manufacturers realized that, you know, that they were probably, well, they were out selling electric cars, you know.
Speaker B:So all of a sudden they've declared that back into, you know, the land.
Speaker A:Because the powers that be don't like hybrids either.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B: hybrids have to be deleted by: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They can bust an engine that's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Attached to it.
Speaker B: at they'll have to extend the: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because of the infrastructure for a lot of reasons.
Speaker B: Because originally it was: Speaker A:Which made, made in many ways more sense.
Speaker A:But we happen to have a Prime Minister at the time who was dictated to by his misses and various other things and he decided to shave 10 years off it.
Speaker A:But it's like we said in many ways, the, the political leaders that we have are just mouthpieces for those who actually do control things.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:So, you know, so it's, you know, we can blame Boris, we can blame.
Speaker B:But it was already in place.
Speaker B:Yeah, always going to happen.
Speaker B:But I personally think they're going to have to extend it because like I said, the infrastructure is just not there.
Speaker A:Well, the other problem is, I mean, I once ran a hybrid car for two weeks and I thought, be a good boy, I had a long journey to do.
Speaker A:I had to go down Terryfordshire, I thought, be a good boy pulling at these services, have a cup of coffee and for some peculiar reason I won't name the make, I thought.
Speaker A:But it didn't recharge itself, it didn't regenerate.
Speaker A:Once you'd use the electricity, you had to go and plug it in.
Speaker A:That was a plug in hybrid, plug in hybrid.
Speaker A:So I thought, be a good boy, have a cup of coffee.
Speaker A:Got to one services, seven charges, none of them working.
Speaker A:I thought, no problem, it's got a full tank of petrol, I'll drive to the next services and plug it in there.
Speaker A:All their charges out of action, awful or full.
Speaker A:So in the end, thank you very much, I've got a tank of tank of petrol and for the rest of the time I had the car, I never bothered trying to consider going to try and charge it up.
Speaker A:If I give up to this, I'll just drive it around as a petrol engine.
Speaker A:And it was actually extremely economical as.
Speaker B:A petrol engine engine, but very expensive.
Speaker A:But technically very expensive because the price of the car with the hybrid system in it was ludicrous.
Speaker A:But they are not the be all and end all, are they?
Speaker B:No, no, I, I personally think hydrogen is hydrogen.
Speaker A:The other thing is as well, I know people who have electric cars as company cars.
Speaker A:I was only quoted this the other week.
Speaker A:One chapter.
Speaker A:He'd been pestered by the company he worked for.
Speaker A:It's in the motor trade, you must have an electric car.
Speaker A:So he went for a well known German brand before Surtles on the front instead of his usual one with the German propeller on the front.
Speaker A:He's had it three months and he hates the sight of it because of how much longer it takes him to do the shortest journeys and to charge it up.
Speaker A:He wished he'd gone for the previous makeup and gone for A petrol or a diesel because it will have actually proved cheaper to run.
Speaker A:Because these days charging an electric car is as much as tanking up with diesel.
Speaker A:It just happens to take you a lot longer to do it.
Speaker B:Yeah, and that, and that's the issue, you know, we go electric, you know, it's costing you pence to do pens to do that.
Speaker B:You know, if you don't go to a specific charging point all of a sudden those pence turns into pounds, don't they?
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:You know cuz you get to your.
Speaker A:Charging point and it's not the one that you've got your little charge pulse, your subscription, your app and you have to do it all.
Speaker A:Get this one well known one that.
Speaker A:Well go on, I'll get the app.
Speaker A:Yes, congratulations there.
Speaker A:Your app by the way, you can't use it for three days.
Speaker A:So let's hold the services you're at as a decent hotel or a decent coffee bar on it.
Speaker B:Stop the lid.
Speaker A:But I mean there's synthetic fuel coming out which they claim is as green if not greener than electric.
Speaker B:Well to be fair everyone goes on about fossil fuel.
Speaker B: the fossils is probably about: Speaker B:Yeah, 20, 000ft.
Speaker B:They're actually drilling past that.
Speaker B:So it's natural resources.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That you know that there is a.
Speaker A:Finite end to these, these rare elements, isn't there?
Speaker A:There's a lot more finite.
Speaker A:You can see the end of them far more than you can see end of a, end of an oil well.
Speaker B:Well this is it, you know, but it's.
Speaker B:I don't know, I, I'm old school.
Speaker A:Me, you know and there's not like a V12.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:A great banker web is on it.
Speaker A:Well preferably given where you are from Naples, preferably of Italian origin.
Speaker B:Well of course, of course, you know, or a nice little four cylinder Alfa Romeo boxing engineer in an Alpha Sud.
Speaker A:Well, I hope you don't think this has been a guest interview that's full of doom and gloom but the one thing is with Neil, he tells it like it is because he spends all day, every day buying occasionally and selling cars and telling customers this is what you're going to get.
Speaker A:This is what it's like in real life terms.
Speaker A:Unlike what the, the magazines and the marketing brochures will take.
Speaker A:Having said that you can't go and get a car brochure anymore.
Speaker A:They've done away with.
Speaker A:They're all online but as always it's Neil Hoyer.
Speaker A:It's been a pleasure having you back on backseat driver.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
