Classic Car Auctions with Damian Jones
In this episode of Backseat Driver, I had the pleasure of speaking with Damian Jones, Senior Motor Car Specialist at H&H Classics. With career-spanning roles at Brooks (now Bonhams) and Cheffins before joining H&H in 2005, Damian has been instrumental in consigning and selling high-profile vehicles, including the ex-Richard Colton 1960 Ferrari 250 GT SWB.
Our discussion delved into the intricate processes of car auctions, from consignment to sale. Damian shed light on sellers' emotional aspects, the significance of choosing the right venues, and the critical role of physical inspections. He recounted memorable sales, such as the 1960 Ferrari 250 GT SWB, which sold for £7.4 million in 2015, with proceeds benefiting the RNLI.
We also explored how classic car trends have evolved and the nuances of auction dynamics and valuation. This conversation offers valuable insights for enthusiasts and anyone curious about the auction world.
Mentioned in this episode:
SAS Autos
For over 20 years, Specialised Automotive Services has provided high-quality, affordable automotive maintenance and repairs. Featured in Lancashire Life and a recipient of their Auto Services Award, the company specialises in vintage and classic car restoration, auto electrical work, and general repairs. https://sas-autos.co.uk
Transcript
Yes, it's me, Mike Stone and this is the Backseat Driver podcast.
Speaker A:It's the fastest, it's the friendliest, and it's for all the family.
Speaker A:The Gas Shocks, 116 Trophy and 120 Coupe cup are the fastest growing race series in the UK taking in six one hour races and eight sprints at all the top circuits.
Speaker A:Visit 116triportun Trophy.com to find out more and get yourself behind the wheel.
Speaker A:From a pot of tea to TT motorbikes, from a classic English breakfast to a full serving of classic cars, Bridge House Tea Rooms is the northwest premier classic car meeting location for coys, bikes, tractors and owner's clubs.
Speaker A: ge or call John and Alicia on: Speaker B:Core options to some they are a mystery.
Speaker B:To others they watch television and they think know all about it.
Speaker B:But is it as simple as we all think?
Speaker B:I'm delighted to welcome to the backseat driver Damien Jones, senior motor car specialist for the famous H H options.
Speaker B:Damien, welcome to the backseat driver.
Speaker C:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:It's like I said, people watch tv, they see a car on the block, the hammer comes down and off it goes.
Speaker B:And that's from most people's point of view is an option.
Speaker B:But there's a lot more to it than that.
Speaker B:An H and H of 30 on years experience know a lot about this.
Speaker B:How exactly does an auction work and how, how do you put a car into auction and what happens after that?
Speaker C:And really it depends on the client and what they want.
Speaker C:So the consignment process can be as hands on or hands off as they like.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you know, sadly sometimes we're dealing with cars from a deceased estate, you know, and you may well have a partner still living, so the widow or widower.
Speaker C:And it's, it's emotionally sensitive as you'd expect.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So in those circumstances we try and be as discreet as possible and you know, take as much of the heavy lifting away.
Speaker C:So we would organize collection, transport, we would go through all the history files, write the catalog description, but try and do everything in such a way that it wouldn't cause any stress to the bereaved seller and then you can get other sellers, other clients who this is their pride and joy and the reason they want to go to auction with it is, is to showcase it in front of as many people as possible.
Speaker C:So on an auction Day, depending on the sale.
Speaker C: and: Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Your auctions are held in various places.
Speaker B:I mean, we're here in your head offices in Warrington, in EO Warrington.
Speaker B:But you don't auction from here, they're done elsewhere, right?
Speaker C:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:No, the motorcar auctions are at the Imperial War Museum Duxford in Cambridge, which is Europe's biggest aviation center for historic aircraft.
Speaker C:It is, is an amazing venue and also frankly, we all have different pictures of what a car's like in our heads.
Speaker C:You know, if we read an advert, some things like that.
Speaker C:And when you go there, sometimes it doesn't gel, doesn't match what you were expecting.
Speaker C:And we've had, you know, client feedback in the past where they've just said, I'm annoyed with myself because the car's not quite what I thought.
Speaker C:But I'm also at this amazing museum so I don't feel like I've had a wasted day with other nice layouts.
Speaker B:Yeah, VRs.
Speaker C:And we also go to the Pavilion Gardens in Buxton and Derbyshire.
Speaker C:That's our longest estab established venues.
Speaker C:We've been going there 30 odd years and that is surrounded with by some of the best driving roads in the country, in my opinion.
Speaker C:I mean there's some cracking roads around that, sadly, a few, few speed cameras now and then for the motorcycles we go to the National Motorcycle Museum at Solihull.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And we have a close partnership with them where we co promote each other at different events around the country.
Speaker C:So yeah, I mean we very much.
Speaker C:We do have online sales, we time sales, but we're very much believers in the physical auctions.
Speaker B:No, it's all those strange things and the motoring ombudsman has said this, there's all this online stuff.
Speaker B:Please go and see it.
Speaker B:Physically go and look at.
Speaker B:If you can see, you might not be able to drive it, especially an auction car, but go and see it and look round and poke it and sit in it.
Speaker C:Very, very, very, very much so.
Speaker C:You know, especially, you know, in the last however many years when MOTs have become optional, you know, for vehicles that are over 40 years old, there's some sense in a pre war car with a massive chassis that looks like it's been nicked from a railway carriage, you know, they're not worried about that corroding, but a monocoque, you know, like as you find in a Ford Escort Mark one or Mark two, you're just the potential.
Speaker B:Well, they were only ever designed to last 10 years weren't.
Speaker C:Yeah, so.
Speaker C:And also you can, you know what I would say, anybody who's ever interested in an auction car at anybody sale, contact the auction house as soon as you can because the auction house wants you to buy with eyes wide open.
Speaker C:So if you've got questions, ask the questions.
Speaker C:Depending on the seller.
Speaker C:You know, we've got a couple of cars coming up on September 20th.
Speaker C:People are away at that time, so they said, can I go and see the car in advance?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you know, we've got the car to neutral territory if you like, and they're having a look at it that way.
Speaker C:And also if we know in advance, we can arrange for engineers to pop down on setup day and have a proper.
Speaker B:Well, so you can have yours, you can have a potential purchase inspected.
Speaker C:You can have a potential purchase inspected.
Speaker C:Now obviously that's got to be with the seller's permission.
Speaker C:You know, you don't want them sort of saying why is my car up on jacks and this and the under.
Speaker C:And often, you know, they want to be satisfied as to the credentials of the person who's doing the inspection.
Speaker C:But again, if you're giving the auction house notice and you make the request, the seller can only say no.
Speaker C:You know, and you can draw your own conclusions.
Speaker C:But it really is from our perspective, one man's meat is another man's poison.
Speaker C:You know, we do get cars coming through and we try and see everything we can in advance but it's not always possible.
Speaker C:Yeah, but sometimes you get a car and it's described as average in every regard and it turns up and you think that is so much smarter than my two year old company car.
Speaker C:I firm to think that the idea of excellent is.
Speaker C:And then other times, unfortunately it's the opposite way.
Speaker C:And you get a car that's described as excellent all the way through and it looks perfectly nice in the photos and when it turns up, it's just not.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it happens to be one of those circumstances where sometimes, you know, an owner's passed away, a relative selling it, the late owner told everybody down the pub that was the best thing since sliced bread.
Speaker C:That's what's been passed on innocently and the car's not.
Speaker C:So it's always make your mind up.
Speaker C:I mean we do, if people ask us, we take further photos where we're specifically looking for faults.
Speaker C:So if we see bubbles, you know, cracks, splits, whatever in the paintwork or the bodywork, we don't have access to ramps at the venues, but you Know, we're quite happy to stick a camera underneath and that sort of thing.
Speaker C:And again, you know, really in auction terms, we'd normally be able to tell you whether the engine starts or not and whether it goes into first and reverse.
Speaker C:Well, that's it.
Speaker C:We're not able to for time and all sort of other pragmatic reasons, run an engine up to temperature, you test drug everything.
Speaker C:But there are ways that you can go about asking the auction house in advance to reduce the potential risk and some of it's common sense.
Speaker C:So, you know, you should be able to see the paperwork for any vehicle if you go to auction, if you look through the paperwork and something is being meticulously MOT'd every year, but it's literally only gone to the MOT station every year, there's a fair chance that on its first long journey, when it's.
Speaker B:Up to temperature, it doesn't go, it'll.
Speaker C:Conk out, seals will perish.
Speaker C:You'd have brakes which were working fine because they were doing three miles a year, you know, the seals will go and you know you're in a world of trouble.
Speaker C:So you can have a look.
Speaker C:If you see something that's done a decent mileage every year and being serviced every year, obviously that instills confidence.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And also certainly with classic car auctions, you need to understand that they are for most people a high days and holidays thing.
Speaker C:That's what they're using their classic for.
Speaker C:And they've got used to driving around all sorts of problems that they've been driving around for years and have frankly forgotten about, you know, which are then a bit of a shock to a new owner.
Speaker C:So somebody might jump a bit like.
Speaker B:Do be alarmed, the passenger door flies open on right hand bends, which back then they'll just keep hold of it.
Speaker B:Every right hand bend.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:But yeah, even a number of cars that come through where the fuel gauge packed up many years ago and somebody just drives around it, you know, and all that sort of thing.
Speaker B:But because we know once it's done 250 miles, it needs a bit more putting in it.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker B:How do you arrive at a value of a car?
Speaker B:And do you ever.
Speaker B:Does your evaluation ever conflict with the owner's idea of the value of the coin?
Speaker C:Yes, it's the short answer.
Speaker B:Cuz I conclude a lot of people think the car is worth a fortune and the cold light of day, it ain't.
Speaker C:Well, it's a mixture, to be frank.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:We, we try and arrive a reserve price in consultation with the seller.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Now, what we charge in entry fees, a basic entry fee for putting a car through one of our classic car auctions is £120.
Speaker C:£100 plus that.
Speaker C:That goes nowhere near covering our internal costs of running a car through a sale.
Speaker C:So just trying to rely on entry fee income, we'd have been out of business 29 and a bit years ago.
Speaker C:So you have to feel you've got a realistic chance above and beyond that.
Speaker C:Often the single biggest expense for people when consigning to a classic car auction isn't our charges, it's transport.
Speaker C:So, you know, if you've got somebody and you know because of where they're situated and current cost of transport, it's going to cost £500 to get the car to the auction.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And if it doesn't sell another £500 back.
Speaker C:We not in a business.
Speaker B:Do you stand that or does the owner stand?
Speaker C:But the owner stands that.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:But we're not in the business of wasting our own time or other people's time or other people's money.
Speaker C:So if what we'll do often is either people will contact us looking to potentially sell or we'll perhaps contact them because a lot of our business is word of mouth recommendations.
Speaker C:So somebody might say, oh, I've got a friend who's thinking about selling.
Speaker C:You know, I'll give you his number.
Speaker C:So you try and come up with a rough ballpark before you jump in.
Speaker B:The car because just what I got through.
Speaker B:One of the problems is a lot of the classic car magazines bring out an annual what your car is worth publication and it's a bit like the good old Parker's Guide from years ago.
Speaker B:You used to look at that and work your values out.
Speaker B:And I conclude a lot of the time the published values don't coincide with the actual value.
Speaker C:The classic car magazine and price guides to have a huge sweeping generalization which our stress doesn't apply to all of them.
Speaker C:But again, for purely pragmatic reasons, a lot of their revenue is derived from advertising.
Speaker C:A lot of that is from classic car dealers and auction houses.
Speaker C:And a classic car dealer won't necessarily want to use auction values as a because that allows nothing for an uplift and they've got to make a living.
Speaker C:So that is something where you'll get and that's a growth of the Internet actually is We've seen a transition over the last 30 years from a buying audience that was more trade dominated to a buying audience now that's more private dominated because A lot of traders will say, if I buy a car from your auction and I put 20% on it, all I'm going to do is get people ringing me up saying, well, I know what you paid for it, I'll give you a bit less.
Speaker B:I was going to say that's one of the problems.
Speaker B:The well known television auction house, there's one guy buys nearly every MGB that appears and the problem is, okay, there's a delay between the filming and it going out, etc.
Speaker B:Etc.
Speaker B:But if they go to his showrooms, they'll see the car and they'll know exactly what he paid for it and they'll also be able to work out how much is stuck on top.
Speaker B:Now it's like the old saying, profit is not a dirty word, we all need to make it.
Speaker B:But if you're not careful, you'll do yourself out of selling a car because we'll think he's after too much for that.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker C:Yeah, there are good and bad auction houses and there are good and bad classic car dealers.
Speaker C:There are some dealers who buy at auction and really go through a car stem to stern because they want to offer a warranty on it, you know, and they earn every penny of the uplift.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And there are others who might pretend that they're selling on behalf of a client or this and there's no investments.
Speaker B:In there or from the wax and polishing and that's it.
Speaker C:Yeah, but no, I mean it's, it's, it's one of those things that, yes, we discuss the reserve.
Speaker C:If we don't think it's achievable, we won't take a car on because it's a waste of people's time.
Speaker C:You're quite right.
Speaker C:It's very rare to come across a seller who doesn't have an idea, even if that's how they start the conversation.
Speaker C:I've got no idea what it's worth or you think it's worth X or I'd never sell it for that.
Speaker C:But you know, more than likely it's a discussion.
Speaker C:It's also trying to get people to understand that it's a different mentality behind an auction sale.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So with a private sale or a retail sale through a dealer, you see an asking price advertised and the expectation is that you can probably make an offer below that level, you know, 5, 10%, something like that, they'll be able to haggle room.
Speaker C:But that is a maximum ceiling.
Speaker C:Now for auction to work at its best.
Speaker C:It's the reverse psychology.
Speaker C:So what we always say to sellers is if you want to maximize the bidding on a vehicle, you've got to make it look as attractive as possible.
Speaker C:So we ask people to put things to market at their worst case scenario price.
Speaker C:Not the price they want to achieve, but a price.
Speaker C:That push came to shove.
Speaker C:If they had to, they'd accept.
Speaker C:They'd accept.
Speaker C:And the idea is then that you get people bidding against each other and building the price up so you are, if you pardon the expression, putting blood in the water.
Speaker C:So you have two real hooks with auction.
Speaker C:One's your picture, the other one's your price.
Speaker C:We tend to find if people like the look of the picture or the price, they'll read the description.
Speaker C:If they like the look of both, then you're on to a winner.
Speaker C:But it is that sort of thing.
Speaker C:But you know, we also, different houses do things differently.
Speaker C:Our guide prices reflect what the car can be bought for.
Speaker C:There's not never a case of guiding something at 10 to 12,000, for example, and somebody bidding 15 and being told that the seller wants 20 because it doesn't sit right with us.
Speaker C:It's not correct as far as we're concerned.
Speaker C:And also, you know, a lot of people, this is their passion, this is their hobby.
Speaker C:If they've taken a day off work and taken the time, trouble and effort to put the money in a current account where they can pay for it quickly and all that sort of thing, you're just not messing them around.
Speaker C:And also, you haven't done the seller any favors either.
Speaker C:So no, I mean, as I say, it is a consultative approach.
Speaker C:And you also as a seller either need to be attracted to the convenience of an auction sale or accept that the auction house has a decent chance of out marketing you.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Because if you don't sell it yourself, you know, it's one of those things we charge, as the majority of competitors do, a seller's commission and a buyer's premium.
Speaker B:How does that work?
Speaker B:Say, just take a round figure, say a car shifts for £100,000.
Speaker B:How does all that work?
Speaker C:Well, a harrod price of £100,000, our standard seller's commission is 5%, sadly, plus bat.
Speaker C:So at £100,000, somebody has paid, the seller has received.
Speaker C:Sold for 100,000, 94,000.
Speaker C:Right now we charge a buyer's premium at 12 and a half percent.
Speaker C:So the hammer drops at 100, somebody's paid 112 and a half.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:So that is a decent chunk of change.
Speaker C:Now typically for a six figure car, we will have at Least a four figure bill for promoting it and sometimes a five figure bill depending on the level of magazine advertising and that sort of thing.
Speaker C:So it's not quite the easy win it appears, but there is a margin there.
Speaker C:If you think that your car is worth £100,000 all day long and you can get £100,000 all day long for it, there's no point in using an auction house.
Speaker C:If you actually think, okay, well H and H have been going 30 odd years, they've got now well over 75,000 clients worldwide.
Speaker C:I think they've got a bigger reach then it's worth engaging.
Speaker C:So you know, for me the reasons for using classic car auction are either ease and convenience or you know, you believe that as an auction house they've got a bigger marketing reach.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you know, that's that because there are plenty of very, very good cars that are sold privately through clubs and all that sort of thing.
Speaker C:And it is a growth area.
Speaker C: n classic car auctions in the: Speaker C:So 95% of cars were traded through dealers, through clubs, privately, whatever.
Speaker C:Now there's a gentleman called Adolfo Orsi who produces a Balafi yearbook, which is a yearbook of all the prices achieved at auction and monitors the market.
Speaker C:That's what he does.
Speaker C:That's his.
Speaker C:Well he's a historian, various other bits and pieces, so I'm selling him short.
Speaker C:But anyway, his latest opinion is that auctions have grown to represent something like 25% of the market.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:So that is a big transition in the last 25 plus years.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, but I mean again part of the reasons that auctions have the prominence they do is that they're public.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you know, somebody can watch an episode of a TV show.
Speaker B:Well, no shows at your prowab, but.
Speaker C:They can also go on our website, any of our competitors websites and see published prices.
Speaker C:So you know, that's why they tend to carry a bit of weight because we're not like the land registry.
Speaker C:You know, if you're nosy enough, you want to know what your neighbors paid for a house, you could find that information.
Speaker C:You know, for classic cars, it's not there.
Speaker C:The biggest single source of, of open market data for classic cars is auction.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now as we know H and H are classic specialists.
Speaker B:What is currently doing?
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker C:I mean I think it's, it's.
Speaker B:He smiled at me then.
Speaker C:Well, not Only because the, the, the classic car market, I think there's a.
Speaker B:There's just.
Speaker B:It tends to be what I mean a classic car you'd love to own, not forced to be the classic car that I'd love to own.
Speaker B:So there is the difference and it's.
Speaker C:Also something that is really impacted by fashion.
Speaker C:You know things come into and go out of fashion.
Speaker C:And also the classic car market is never uniformly always going up or going down on.
Speaker C:There are always different sections within it.
Speaker C:But yeah, I mean the growth trend over the last 10 years has been undoubtedly what our German friends call young timers.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker C: So post: Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So There was a C124 Mercedes Benz coupe that had been completely reworked by AMG as one of their Hammer series.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think that sold last year for 761,000 J.
Speaker C:Now that's the kind of price that if you told somebody it was going to make that five years ago they'd have referred you to a psychiatric law.
Speaker C:So there is that upswirl and people do often say that you get your 30 year rule that people 30 years down the line have got the money to buy something that they lusted after in their youth.
Speaker C:But there are other factors.
Speaker C:So event eligibility.
Speaker C: -: Speaker C:So you know, it is those little nuances.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's also great to see different companies exploring different aspects of the market.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So without wanting to there's a well known insurance company that operates on both sides of the Atlantic that has the festival of the unexceptional.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, which has really started to kick forward and celebrate a lot of repmobiles Porridge, you know.
Speaker B:But thing is when you.
Speaker B:I've never actually been to it because it coincides with something else I do every year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But you suddenly realize that trying for claims Voxel Novas and these are the basic ones, basic Chevettes that you used to see all over.
Speaker B:It's until you see one you suddenly think I haven't seen one of them in years because they all returned to mother Earth and scrap yards and they were bought new and third down they were given to the kids and when he got written off, nobody was interested in it.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, yeah, No, I mean, very, very much so.
Speaker C:I mean it's, it's, it is something that those cars, I mean that, that is a function of values increasing.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:It is supply and demand.
Speaker C:You know, if the supply absolutely drops off because most of them being consigned to the knacker's yard, then no.
Speaker C:And they, they still have an incredibly strong nostalgic pull.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And they offer, you know, what was, as you say, kind of dynamically fairly unexceptional in the 70s or 80s.
Speaker C:Now if you put somebody who's just passed their test in, you know, is a kind of wonderful contraption with no power steering and, you know, just all sorts of different.
Speaker C:They feel a lot more alive.
Speaker C:The cars were much lighter then.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, and they tend to feel more responsive than the sort of deadened Econo boxes we tend to run around into.
Speaker B:Well, I mean the ironic thing is somebody said to me a few weeks ago which was the best Ford Fiesta ever made.
Speaker B:I said, the Mark one.
Speaker B:I said, now narrow it down more.
Speaker B:I said, the 998cc pop, the popular.
Speaker B:I said its power to weight was perfect.
Speaker B:I said, it handled a treat.
Speaker B:I said, it had nothing inside to distract you.
Speaker B:I said, a radio was an extra.
Speaker B:I said, but the handling and performance was sensational.
Speaker B:I said, but you find me a one Fiesta Pop now you'll never find one.
Speaker B:I said, if you do, I said, it'll be rotting up a corn river field.
Speaker B:Subways.
Speaker C:We did sell one a couple of years ago, I think, I think for about 30,000 pounds.
Speaker C:But only because it was one of those very strange cars.
Speaker C:As soon as it was launched, somebody wanted to manufacture an ingenious contrivance to get a wheelchair in there.
Speaker B:Oh, right.
Speaker C:And it was done as a demo, never covered any miles and then went to the Science Museum in London and then somebody bought it out of the Science Museum, found that they'd kept all the original seats, unbolted the wheelchair apparatus, put the original trim back in and was basically presenting a time warp.
Speaker C:It's your Fiesta Pop.
Speaker C:And there were plenty of people out there just like, I'll never see that again.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And hence it did so well.
Speaker C:But yeah, I mean that's the exception that proves the rule.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, what, what are some of.
Speaker B:The most exceptional, if you can tell me, some of the most unusual cars that you've auctioned.
Speaker B:What, and how did you come across them?
Speaker B:Did they come to you with them?
Speaker B:Did you find, ah, somebody Wants to sell that because it's good for H&H's profile to be seen selling this car or auctioning this car.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean it's a mixture, you know.
Speaker C:As I say, we're very, very fortunate that we get a lot of business through word of mouth recommendation.
Speaker C:We've got a lot of long standing clients.
Speaker C: sure of helping to sell was a: Speaker C:We were one of them and we tendered for the business and thankfully won it.
Speaker C:But I remember having sold cars for Richard Colton while he was still alive and Certainly with the two big Ferraris had their 250 short wheelbase and 275 GTB4 can.
Speaker C:He had been told by my boss, the company founder Simon Hope, who I think you used to race with.
Speaker B:Yes, I know son.
Speaker B:I've seen him for years.
Speaker B:He was, shall we say, if memory serves, he's quite a very tall, gruff and to the point individual.
Speaker B:Is our silent.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, no he's, he's definitely.
Speaker C:Because he's a great boy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know where your stung result.
Speaker C:As he says, if you could call a spade a spade, you're missing.
Speaker C:But he had said to Richard Colton, I'll send Damien along.
Speaker C:He knows a little bit about cars now.
Speaker C:Richard was just didn't suffer fools gladly.
Speaker C:So he went with trepidation.
Speaker C:You just always try and get on with people because what you're trying to do with the seller is work in partnership with them.
Speaker C:And anyway, he pulled the back of a dust cover off what happened to be the 275 Ferrari and said which derivative of 275 is it?
Speaker C:And thankfully I'd done some mugging up and realized that because it had external boot hinges.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was a four cam.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So I told them that and that passed the test and the ice thawed and all.
Speaker C:But the main reason for that particular car being so memorable to me was not the value.
Speaker C:I mean, yes, don't get me wrong, we don't sell 7.6 million pound cars every day.
Speaker C:Wish we did, but actually I don't.
Speaker B:Because I suppose there's a lot of stress goes with Sadevi.
Speaker C:There's a lot of stress with it, but also part of the joy of the job is interacting with all types of people and all types of car and we don't specialise which has been a positive and a negative for us.
Speaker C: we have sold everything from: Speaker C: for me was he'd had it since: Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C: We sold it in: Speaker C:And he had used it as a car.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Not as a blue chip investment.
Speaker C:He'd used it as a car.
Speaker C:So that is probably the only time, as I said, I've been doing this, getting 30 odd years now.
Speaker C:The only time I will have the honor of selling a car like that where the owner has treated it as a car to the point where he'd blown the nose in with a Halfords rattle can proper.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:He'd got some stone chips.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:It was an old car.
Speaker C:He tend to drove it, you know, for a lot of speaking to his friends and things like.
Speaker C:He tend to, you know, drive his cars like he'd stolen them.
Speaker C:He did a lot of eventing, a lot of tours and things like that.
Speaker C:And he believed the cars were for driving.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And he'd had that Ferrari for decades and he just thought, fine, I'll blow in the stone ships.
Speaker B:I mean, as you know, 4:1 air.
Speaker B:I've done the tour autos, Classic Lamar.
Speaker B:I've done a bit of the Mia Migli and everything else.
Speaker B:And the guys who compete, yes, they have an eligible car but when they're out there, they race them.
Speaker C:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:They don't play about with them.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:Which would horrify most people at times actually when you discover it's like the vintage Bentleys, the proper ones, they're worth millions.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:The prices, the values are dropping a little bit.
Speaker B:But these guys go out and race the things.
Speaker C:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, again, it's a very, very broad church in terms of the classic car community.
Speaker C:We've got clients who the whole enjoyment is restoring a car.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:They're not actually that bothered about driving when it's finished.
Speaker C:It's the.
Speaker C:And more often than not, they're losing money hand over fist.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:But they've got the satisfaction of bringing a car back to life and going through that journey.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, and frankly, if they weren't doing that, I wouldn't have a job.
Speaker C:So, you know, quite grateful to that.
Speaker C:We've got other clients who just drive the cars.
Speaker C:That's what they're for.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:We get other clients who will turn around and say, look, compared to a modern car, this is dynamically awful.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's just to look at, this is what I have my cars to look at.
Speaker C:Friends come over for dinner or the grandkids, I come, I open the garage doors, they'll be all starting to look at it and that's it.
Speaker C:So it's all, you know, horses for courses, all sorts of different people and all sorts of different cars prepped accordingly.
Speaker B:So, and I conclude you're if you've got a car coming in, you will have clients that you will know to contact and say if you're interested, we have this coming in.
Speaker C:Yeah, we always try and we always try and market the cars to as wide an audience as possible.
Speaker C:But you never ever want to bump into a long term client at an event who said, oh, I wish I'd known you'd had one of those coming up and been looking one for years.
Speaker C:Because you're thinking, well that was a potential bidder, so you knew.
Speaker C:So yes, if anything rings a vague bell that you think, oh, I'm sure somebody was looking for one of those.
Speaker C:You go through the notes and we've got a fantastic client database system and a wants list.
Speaker C:So we keep tabs.
Speaker C:If somebody rings up and we have had it in the past and says, you know, I'm after this, I know it's willfully obscure, but can you sort that?
Speaker C:Then if we ever get one, we notify.
Speaker B:Yeah, Because I mean you look at some of them, it's like we talk about Kato looked at.
Speaker B:It's like you get the ones with its ultra rare one off bodywork by manufact, by company coach builders like Satuchik.
Speaker B:I mean you, that has got to have a very, not being funny, a very narrow client base for somebody to want that.
Speaker B:Because invariably, apart from taking it to the big concourse events, it'll never do anything, it'll be trailered or transported all over.
Speaker B:But you will have customers who will say, if you get something with this bodyworking and coach working, let me know.
Speaker C:You do get people.
Speaker C:Just as you get people who focus on a particular manufacturer, so you get people who focus on a particular coach builder.
Speaker C:We've had it in the past where people have absolutely loved the work of Gurney Nutty and their chief stylist in the 30s, af MacNeill produce some really glorious designs.
Speaker C:And again, occasionally you'll just get somebody who falls in love with it, especially some of the French coach builders, as you say, like Figoni and Falachi or as they used to be colloquially known in the 50s, phoney and flashy, but anyway, the gonian flashy with these incredibly dramatic looking cars where people look at it and just think, do you know what, that they treat it more like a piece of sculpture than a car.
Speaker B:I must confess, I've seen some of these cars and you think, well, I believe a car should be driven, but not even I will get behind the wheel of that and take it out because you'd just be terrified of something happening to it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:But I mean, we.
Speaker B:Again, because if it gets bumped, you ain't gonna nip down the corner garage and get it repaired.
Speaker B:This is serious undertakings to do anything to.
Speaker C:Yeah, I.
Speaker C:But again, you.
Speaker C:You get different mentality.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, it's like I remember somebody once doing a.
Speaker C:An interview with Sir Anthony Bamford y about why he was happy for his 250 GTOs to be raced.
Speaker C:And him saying, well, the maximum amount of damage, you know, at the time is several hundred thousand pounds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The car's worth.
Speaker C:Well, I mean that.
Speaker C:Worth a fortune.
Speaker C:But let's say you'd struggle to get one for less than $40 million.
Speaker C:And then when they would have a but, but he would say, as a proportion of the value, it's tiny.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, yes, I'd much rather it was driven as intended and raced as intended, you know, and if it suffers a knock, it suffers a knock.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you don't mind me asking, what car have you had through that you'd agreed whatever value it was and it seriously exceeded.
Speaker B:Because it's like the old saying, you only need two people on the phone or in the room who want that car and if money's no object to them, it'll.
Speaker B:It'll go galactic.
Speaker B:Do you get this regularly as the one that sticks out without giving too many h H Secrets away.
Speaker B:Did you.
Speaker B:Did you stand there in the room and think you're joking?
Speaker C:I mean, I think it's.
Speaker C:It's the.
Speaker C:The last one that absolutely took me by surprise was bits of a car.
Speaker C:You couldn't have called it an entire car.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it was an ACA 2.6.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:That had.
Speaker C:Had.
Speaker C:I think it was two owners.
Speaker C:It's either two or three owners from nearby.
Speaker C:And the vendor's father had stripped the car for restoration.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Taken all the body panels off, all the interior paneling off, engine out, gearbox out, rear axles out, dashboard out.
Speaker B:Seamless.
Speaker B:Be a box of it.
Speaker B:Boxes of this, box of bits.
Speaker C:The chassis had gone missing.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you had the car, the wheels, everything but no chassis.
Speaker C:Navera tubular, sort of a ladder frame chassis under an ace.
Speaker C:And they weren't rust protected and a lot of people would have replaced it Anyway, for safety reasons after this length of time.
Speaker C:But that was a very nice box of bits that needed completely restoring.
Speaker C:But you had unbroken ownership, so continuous history.
Speaker C:And it was a long term friend stroke client in Suffolk.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Who rang me up and said because he was friends with vendor's late father, he's now thinking of selling.
Speaker C:What do you think it's worth?
Speaker C:I said, I've got no idea.
Speaker C:I said, you know, because some people will just say that's, you know, a pile of bits, what's the point?
Speaker C:And other people will look at it and go, no, I can see a car then anyway, that we had a mixture of bids on the car and the differentiation between how some people valued it and how other people valued it was a hundred times.
Speaker C:So somebody had left a commission bid on it at £2,000.
Speaker C:It actually made over £200,000.
Speaker C:So you know.
Speaker C:And the gentleman who bought it flew his engineer in from the States.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Both the engineer and the buyer were beyond polite and courteous.
Speaker C:And that car is.
Speaker C:Is being resurrected.
Speaker B:There's re speeding.
Speaker C:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So it does happen.
Speaker B:How does somebody get hold of H and H auctions if they.
Speaker B:If they've got a car they want to sell or there's something knocking about but they think they'd like to buy.
Speaker C:Off you telephone, you know, we still use them.
Speaker C:So that's the landline.
Speaker C: -: Speaker C:Because technology means we must.
Speaker C:You can contact us by WhatsApp, you can message us on Facebook, Instagram, probably.
Speaker B:Other platforms that profile your but haven't been invented yet.
Speaker B:Davian Jones, senior motor car specialist at H and H Auctions here in sunny Warrington.
Speaker B:Thank you very much indeed for joining me on the backseat driver.
Speaker C:My pleasure.
