Stuart Dent: A Journey Through Motorsport Photography
It's me, Mark Stone and in this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast I'm in conversation with Stuart Dent, a distinguished motorsport journalist and photographer, who has recently published a book titled "Both Sides of the Barrier," which chronicles his extensive experiences in the world of motor racing from 1957 to 1979.
We delve into the genesis of this publication, which arose from a collection of photographs he had amassed over nearly two decades, capturing moments that showcase the evolution of motorsport and its personalities. In our discussion, we explore the technological limitations of early photography, particularly the use of a modest Kodak Instamatic camera, which nevertheless managed to yield remarkable images of racing legends.
Additionally, we reflect on the significant transformations within motorsport during the period, including the increasing commercial sponsorships and the changing nature of the driver’s public persona. This episode serves as a poignant reminiscence of a vibrant era in racing, highlighting both the challenges and triumphs faced by those behind the lens.
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Transcript
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Speaker B: -: Speaker B:I'd like to introduce the Backseat Driver Radio Show, a motor racing enthusiast, motorsport journalist, author and the man who made the Kodak Instamatic famous, Stuart Dent.
Speaker B:He's just published both sides of the barrier.
Speaker B:Images and memories from a motor racing odyssey.
Speaker B: The A side,: Speaker B:Stuart, welcome to the Backseat Driver Radio Show.
Speaker A:Well, thank you very much, Mark.
Speaker A:It's good to be here.
Speaker B:Right, how did all this come about?
Speaker A:Well, I'd been putting my photographs up on social media over the course of the last, I don't know, 15, 18 years or so or so, I suppose.
Speaker A: And in the autumn of: Speaker A:Yeah, so it was their idea.
Speaker A:They take full credit for that and yeah, represented quite an exciting challenge for me.
Speaker B:Now, when you read the book, the one thing you realize is, especially this year, as I said, the A side, which means there is a part two looming large.
Speaker B:Somewhere along the lines 57 and into the 60s, motor racing was what I called it was the proper era of motorsport.
Speaker B:And it's a bit about, roughly about when I was knocking about.
Speaker B:It also was the era when with a bit of guile and a bit of savvy, you could get yourself into the paddocks and into the circuits and meet the drivers.
Speaker B:I mean, I conclude having read the book, this is what you did a lot, isn't it?
Speaker B:You worked out the ways of getting in there.
Speaker A:I did.
Speaker A: of the top drivers in Formula: Speaker A:His father Sid, through a friend of my father's, basically got me an invitation to attend a race meeting with Steve Thompson's dad, Sid.
Speaker A:And therefore I was all of a sudden from being a fanatic on the outside and going everywhere where I could and paying to do so like everyone else, all of a sudden I was.
Speaker A:Was on the inside.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And as I say, I was.
Speaker A:I was 15 and it was just unbelievable.
Speaker A:And that gave me a taste, as you can imagine, of, of what it was like to be involved, if you like, in a very peripheral way within the inner sanctum.
Speaker A:And I just had to add more.
Speaker A:So that was my motivation, my inspiration to find as any and every possible route, as you mentioned, to repeat that process in following seasons.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now the other thing is, the book points out, and this is the interesting thing is the bulk of your photography was carried out with a free Kodak Instamatic.
Speaker B:I mean, just how did you acquire this camera?
Speaker A:It really was free.
Speaker A:It was free with a huge bag or box of licorice.
Speaker A:All sorts.
Speaker A:Yeah, those.
Speaker A:I think you can still get them, can't you?
Speaker A: at was on a summer holiday in: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So initially it was, you know, family snaps on the beach and things like that.
Speaker A:Then I had a little phase, I don't think I mentioned it in the book actually, of being interested in buses.
Speaker A:So I tried, took quite a lot of photos of buses at the end of the 60s and then of course it was, it came into its own really, when I got the motor racing bug.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean the interesting thing about those, and somewhere back at my parents I have one not like yours because there's a photograph of yours in the book.
Speaker B:But the beauty of them was they have that, shall we say, self contained cassette that you just dropped in the back and that was it.
Speaker B:No prating about, just push it in.
Speaker B:And the only other option you had was a lens setting or an aperture setting.
Speaker B:Bright or overcast.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Or flash, which of course was hardly ever used because the flash cubes, that's what they were, four bulbs in a rotating cube was so expensive and I used them once, as mentioned in the book and the results were disastrous, never to be used again.
Speaker B:Well, I mean the other problem with those was they had an effective range of about three feet.
Speaker A:Yes, that's right.
Speaker A:But as you mentioned, you know that the camera was so unbelievably basic.
Speaker A:And you know, you couldn't even frame a picture accurately because your viewfinder, unlike an SLR single lens reflex camera, was looking at something really just different to what the lens was looking at.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, the up.
Speaker B:Technically that was why the Leica rangefinder were, because in the viewfinder there was a square and that's what the lens saw in an Instamatic.
Speaker B:You never got this.
Speaker B:It was just a click and hope, really, wasn't it?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:But I mean, look, it's not being funny, looking at the end results, they were all square because these cameras generated square photographs.
Speaker B:I mean, over this period of time, this little camera and the square format captured some unbelievable images of drivers and all sorts.
Speaker B:I mean, it's tangible proof that you didn't need the latest gear to go and get the photographs that you acquired.
Speaker A:No, obviously the technical side of it, of the end result, left a lot to be desired, but what do you expect from a camera that was free with some squeaks?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And probably with a plastic lens as well, if memory serves on them.
Speaker A:It wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker A:But yeah, I mean, it illustrates what was possible with.
Speaker A:If you had the guile to, you know, get yourself into places you should never have been.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And capture the moment.
Speaker A:And in that respect it worked perfectly.
Speaker B:I mean, what would.
Speaker B:I mean, drivers then were completely different to drivers now.
Speaker B:I mean, the modern driver is surrounded by a PR team, security and everything else back then, the drivers, the car.
Speaker B:A driver and a car would pull up next to you, climb out and there they would be.
Speaker B:I mean, what were the drivers attitudes towards you at the time, being a.
Speaker A:Young lad, in general, they were very accommodating.
Speaker A:There were exceptions.
Speaker A:But I think in retrospect, because I did think about these reactions that weren't so positive at the time and I think it was a question of not picking my moment, appropriately enough.
Speaker A:And that was a lesson learned because, you know, being aware that these guys, if you, if you're only 3/4 of an hour away from the start of a Grand Prix, they've got plenty to think about and they aren't going to be wanting to be bothered with signing a signature or a new book or something like that.
Speaker A:So, you know, you learn by these things.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And react accordingly.
Speaker A:But no, some guys made such an impression on me, the one that stands out always is Guy Regazzoni, which I described in the book.
Speaker A: mittedly, it was at a Formula: Speaker A: It was the final round of the: Speaker A:So there wasn't a level of pressure on the drivers, or certainly on him being a Grand Prix driver, as there would have been had it been a Formula One event.
Speaker A:But even so, for him to remember that prior to the race, he said, not at the moment, but come back and see me afterwards and I'll sort you out.
Speaker A:When I'd asked him for some stickers, I saw him after the race and I thought, he's not going to remember me, but I'm going to follow up regardless.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:And lo and behold, he did remember me.
Speaker A:And we wandered off down the hill to the old.
Speaker A:In the old paddock.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And went to his eye car, which was a Mark III Cortina, and he duly opened the boot, got his briefcase out and doled me out some stickers.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Sorry, carry on.
Speaker A:No, I was just gonna say I couldn't believe it.
Speaker A:I didn't expect him to remember me.
Speaker A:And he's almost as if I'm going to remind him just to embarrass him.
Speaker A:I was very wrong.
Speaker A:And he was already a hero to me because he was a br.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I think we already knew he was going back to Ferrari at that juncture.
Speaker A:So, you know, he was right up there already.
Speaker A:But, I mean, he just put himself on such a high pedestal with his attitude towards me.
Speaker A:As you say, you know, an absolute nobody little kid.
Speaker A:Yeah, wonderful.
Speaker B: book is like, there, Formula: Speaker B:I mean, that was one of the formulas then.
Speaker B:I mean, like the.
Speaker B:The great Brian Redmond won numerous championships in that.
Speaker B: serious formula with formula: Speaker A:Wasn't really was.
Speaker A:And of course, in that era, they were when we still had non championship races.
Speaker A:There was.
Speaker A:There were a total of seven.
Speaker A: races in silver in Britain in: Speaker A: bulked out by adding formula: Speaker A:You wouldn't do that if they were completely uncompetitive.
Speaker A:They'd have to be there or thereabouts.
Speaker A: And of course, famously, in: Speaker B:And the other thing you realize reading this book, the number of teams that have vanished.
Speaker B:I mean, you talk about teams that you think, I remember them, I remember them.
Speaker B:And that's when they used to buy a car from a manufacturer and go and race.
Speaker B:I mean, that doesn't happen now.
Speaker B:I mean, it must be sad if you, if you think back now, great at the time, but sad now to realize how many teams have vanished.
Speaker A:It's tragic.
Speaker A:And, and I, I, I, I don't like getting old.
Speaker A:But my only real consolation is the fact, and this is what I do consciously remind myself about.
Speaker A:If you weren't the age you are, Stuart, you wouldn't have seen motor racing as its greatest.
Speaker A:And as you say, when you could literally just go to March or someone of that ilk, buy yourself a chassis, go to Cosworth or one of the tuners and buy yourself a DFV and go Grand Prix racing, it was just wonderful.
Speaker B:Now, of course, you carried on from being a teenage enthusiast with an Instamatic.
Speaker B:I mean, how did you progress into doing what you did.
Speaker A:Latterly, do you mean?
Speaker B:Well, you went from being an enthusiast with an Instamatic to starting to write about and cover the sport, didn't you?
Speaker A:Well, you're now going into the realms of the yet to be written.
Speaker A:All right, B side.
Speaker A:Because to remind you, the A side, the already published book volume concludes with me being offered a job on Autosport magazine following the interview I'd had with them.
Speaker A:And that was to work on the advertising department.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker A:And so the B side will be, as the name of the book implies, me going to the other side of the barrier.
Speaker A:Yeah, I spend the 70s as being a fan essentially on one side of the barrier, and it became my job effectively.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden I'm on the officially on the other side of the barrier as opposed to unofficially, which is what my photographs are all.
Speaker B:About now, as an enthusiast and given the era of the A side, 57 to 79, I mean, you will be.
Speaker B:Well, as I was, I'm a little bit younger than you, but you will.
Speaker B:You started to live through the era when.
Speaker B:Okay, I mean, there's the old saying, multisport is dangerous and it always will be.
Speaker B:And if you don't want injuring in a racing car, don't go and get in one.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, you would have been witness to quite a few of the dangers because at the time the circuits were nowhere near as safe as they are now.
Speaker A:Well, safety was starting to become an issue thanks to the pioneering efforts of Jackie Stewart in particular.
Speaker A:Yeah, but no, you're right, I mean, it was a different animal back then.
Speaker A: er attended was the September: Speaker A:And sadly, during that race, not in front of me, but I could see the smoke.
Speaker A:A privateer driver in a cooperation.
Speaker A:He didn't wear belts, he wore a jumper over his shirt, he had an open face helmet.
Speaker A:A real sort of gentleman amateur at the time.
Speaker A:And they were already fading away, those guys.
Speaker A:He had a mechanical failure and sadly died.
Speaker A:And that was my first race.
Speaker A:So right from the word go, you became very aware at a 14 year old, as I was at the time, of the reality of the dangers.
Speaker A:I known that these things happen because just by reading magazines I'd already experienced racing losing luminaries such as Pedro Rodriguez and Joe Sifford in particular.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But then when you, when it happens at an event you're at, it really hits you hard.
Speaker A:Especially at that age.
Speaker A:Yeah, but yeah, the drivers were just a different breed back then.
Speaker A:I always, I didn't tangibly think this at the time, but in retrospect I used to consider them to be gladiatorial.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I do remember every, every race of champions, which was the first time you got to see Formula one cars in the flesh in Britain.
Speaker A:Every year in the March, I'd look at the grid.
Speaker A:Once I'd done whatever I'd managed to do photographically and think, I wonder how many of these guys are going to be at this race next year.
Speaker A:You had to be aware of it.
Speaker A: driver back in those days was: Speaker A:I mean, that was such an achievement for me on a personal level, including Peter Revson.
Speaker A:And while my film cartridge, as you've alluded to, was still at the process was at Kodak being processed, the poor man died, tested five days later in the tested Kyalami in South Africa.
Speaker A:So in between me taking his photograph and me getting the process slide back, the poor man had deceased.
Speaker B:Now, of course, that was the other thing you talk about, the fact that how many frames were there on.
Speaker B:I think, were they 1, 2?
Speaker B:Did they call them a one two six?
Speaker A:I think, yes, I think you're right.
Speaker A:That rings a bell.
Speaker A:From memory, it was 12, 24 or 36.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And whichever one I bought or ones I bought sometimes were determined by how much fund I'd managed to accrue from my paper round.
Speaker A:It's as simple as that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And of course.
Speaker A:Well, not of course, but in my case, whilst my parents were Great.
Speaker A:And they took me, they took me to some races, they didn't take me to all of them.
Speaker A:So I had to make my own way there on public transport and stuff like that.
Speaker A:So that was also out of my money, most of it from my paper rounds.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But the funniest thing, and I only discovered this whilst writing my book was that this is just, I, I could beat myself up so badly about this.
Speaker A:I didn't realize until a couple years ago that they did different speed films.
Speaker A:Yeah, I had no idea.
Speaker A:So I was just buying them by the number of frames I could afford, not by what speed the film was.
Speaker A:So I, in that respect it was always, in hindsight are just a complete lottery.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A: light was particularly poor,: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And because I got the, I probably got a, A, a film suitable for a glorious sun.
Speaker B:But I mean if you think back then life was a lot more innocent really, wasn't it?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, I was young at the time so I wasn't really concerned with the greater scheme of things.
Speaker A:But yeah, it was simpler.
Speaker B:I mean one thing given the 57 to 79 and you allude to it in the book, you were also witness to the evolution of the Coys.
Speaker B:I mean from 57 to 79 they would have visually changed quite dramatically, wouldn't they?
Speaker A:Oh, beyond belief.
Speaker A:The evolution, the speed of the evolution really.
Speaker A:You know, my awareness, I'd got early 60s Dinky and Corgi toys so I knew about the cigar shaped cars and I was aware of the cars that predated them.
Speaker A:I think my dad had a model that he gave to me of a Bugatti front engine Bugatti Grand Prix car.
Speaker A:So you know, there was an awareness.
Speaker A:But for me, the cars, I, I couldn't, in hindsight I couldn't have actually picked a better era to have discovered my interest in the sport because the cars looked fantastic, they sprouted wings, commercial sponsorship was new because I was going.
Speaker B:To touch on that because I mean all of a sudden I think Graham Hill was the first one with gold leaf.
Speaker B:But I mean all of a sudden cars were, were mobile billboards, weren't they?
Speaker A:Yes, but in general they were done very subtly.
Speaker A:You know there are liveries from that era, the early 70s that are still considered now as iconic.
Speaker A:John Player special on the lotus is the livery that replaced the gold Leaf brand that's still revered to this day.
Speaker A:53 years on.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the Yardley livery that first adorned the BRMs and then the McLarens, that too is considered to be a classic.
Speaker A:So they were done in a way whereby they made their mark, but in an attractive way, not like a massive dog's breakfast or the things that we see today.
Speaker B:I mean, the one thing I always say to people is, it's fair enough.
Speaker B:I mean, maybe it needed banning, maybe it didn't.
Speaker B:I mean, I do imbibe with tobacco, but I said to people, I said it wasn't to get you to smoke, it was get.
Speaker B:To get you to change brands.
Speaker A:Yes, that was the official line.
Speaker A:I think unofficially, they wanted people to take up smoking as well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But, yes, you're right.
Speaker A:The official line was always getting.
Speaker A:Getting people to change brands.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And of course, back then.
Speaker A:And I'm a smoker too, by the way, Mark.
Speaker A:And I never changed brand, even though my cars, my favorite cars were often had a Marlborough connection.
Speaker A:Never smoked Marlborough or jps.
Speaker A:I've lost my train of thought now.
Speaker A:What was the same.
Speaker B:We were talking about getting you to change brands, not.
Speaker B:Not to take up smoking officially, but unofficially, they wanted you to take up smoking.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it'd be slightly naive to believe that they didn't want that to happen.
Speaker A:But you're quite right that the official line was exactly as you say, wanting people to change.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:The point I was going to make was there was a huge.
Speaker A:A much greater percentage of people smoked back then compared to now.
Speaker A:Yes, that's a significant factor.
Speaker B:Funny enough, I've just read an advert in an old magazine that explained why certain doctors smoke certain cigarettes.
Speaker B:It calmed their nerves more than the other ones.
Speaker B:But, I mean, back then with the advertising, did the atmosphere of the paddock and the pits change?
Speaker A:Well, I did.
Speaker A: y first grand prix, which was: Speaker A: otus, which was introduced in: Speaker A:So by the time I actually physically got to being at a Grand Prix, it was four years down the road.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I rather like the evolution in the cars.
Speaker A:A lot of changed commercially in that space of time.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I mean, it was a.
Speaker A:It was just such a colorful place back then, largely because of the commercial sponsorship, because, you know, you don't have to look too far and hard to see what the cars were in terms of their presentation.
Speaker A: Prior to: Speaker B:Yeah, I was going to say, like you get Shell, Ferraldo, Girling, oil companies and tire companies, wouldn't you?
Speaker A:Yep, yep.
Speaker B:I mean, at the time, once again, going back to the teams, unlike today where they require millions, if not billions, you'd have seen a lot of the teams, probably why a lot of them went by the.
Speaker B:By the by, they would be struggling.
Speaker B:It would be an effort, them effort for them to make every meeting, wouldn't it?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And in many cases they didn't do every meeting for that very reason.
Speaker A:So, you know, you get teams that would essentially just do the European races because they could afford to get there and not do the flyaways.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's just a different world.
Speaker A:And of course the flip side of that is you'd also get the one off appearances that people, you know, teams would just appear for their own race.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was just so, so interesting.
Speaker A:There was something happening all the time in every aspect.
Speaker A:It was, it was just so fun, so entertaining.
Speaker B:I think the other thing is from your description.
Speaker A:Sorry, just.
Speaker A:I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Speaker A:Just a pertinent recollection regarding the budgets and so forth at the time.
Speaker A: ember reading that McLaren in: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So two top line drivers, both on the payroll.
Speaker A: Their sponsorship budget for: Speaker B:And I was talking to somebody a while ago and they were telling me how much it cost to have their company's logo on the wing mirrors of an F1 car for a season.
Speaker B:And that was 40 million.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it's just insane now.
Speaker A:It really is.
Speaker A:I remember talking to Eddie Jordan at the end of 91, I think it was to see what the opportunities were, if any, of getting his former Formula 3 driver, my best mate, Tommy Byrne, in a role as test driver.
Speaker A:And long story short, it was a million pounds, possibly dollars.
Speaker A:And for one logo on the inside of the rear wing.
Speaker B:Just a quick aside, somebody approached a friend of mine who is a racing driver and said he wanted to drive a Bentley Continental in the GT series, but he just wanted to drive one race.
Speaker B:So my friend got back to him and said, it's sorted, it'll cost you £60,000.
Speaker B:Or he said, I only want to do one race, I don't want a season to be told, that is to do one race.
Speaker A:It's just crazy, isn't it?
Speaker A:Really is.
Speaker B:I mean, talking of that you would have seen the money start to roll in, wouldn't you?
Speaker B:And I dare say a lot of people have said it had a good effect and it had a bad effect.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:There's precise for everything, aren't they, Mark?
Speaker A:I think at the end of the day, it has to be considered beneficial.
Speaker A:Even though the advent of commercial sponsorship upset a lot of the die hards at the time, you know, it allowed the sport to flourish to an incredible level at a very rapid rate.
Speaker A:And another person whose influence can't be underestimated is Bernie Ecclestone.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because he saw what was happening.
Speaker A: a team owner from, excuse me,: Speaker A:And he's not a unilaterally popular person, and I can understand some of the reasons behind that, but overall, that guy worked wonders for the sport.
Speaker A:He really did.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, I mean, you would have also had the opportunity to see new drivers appear that went on to great things.
Speaker B:Were you, as a, shall we say, a spotty youth in the pits and the paddocks, able to spot any of them and think that guy will go on to great things?
Speaker A:Well, I can't.
Speaker A:I can't say that I was.
Speaker A:I mean, it by complete chance and not by judging on sensible criteria.
Speaker A:I adopted, in that sense, Niki Lauda after the first time I'd seen him race, when he won it at Alden park in a Formula 2 event.
Speaker A:It was a British Formula 3 Formula 2 championship series.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Believe it or not, it was the European guys doing five rounds in Britain.
Speaker A:You know, again, an example of something you just wouldn't see nowadays.
Speaker A:Anyway, it was his helmet that appealed to me, this enormously bright Dayglo helmet.
Speaker A:I thought it was fantastic.
Speaker A:It was unlike any of the other helmets.
Speaker A:And he, to me, didn't look really what a racing driver should look like.
Speaker A:So he had a great helmet and he didn't really look like a racing driver.
Speaker A:And I thought, ah, he's my bloke, I like it.
Speaker A:He would erase.
Speaker A:Then he won the race and that was it.
Speaker A:Huge, louder from that moment onwards.
Speaker A:And of course, he went on to great things, but I can't honestly say that I talent spotted it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:As such, I mean, the great stories about Lauda were.
Speaker B:I mean, to go and do the races, he put his car on a trailer, hook it to the back of his road car, and off he would go.
Speaker B:I mean, once again, you would have seen the advent of the big transporters as compared to a lot of them.
Speaker B:It's like I said, it was a racing car on a trailer on the back of a car and the transporters would have come into being.
Speaker A:Yep, that was very much still happening with the private entrance that we spoke about earlier.
Speaker A:In my early days I took a photograph, it's in the book.
Speaker A: addock at Silverstone for the: Speaker A:He'd had a couple of outings, non championship races, one of which sadly broke his leg.
Speaker A:But this is his comeback event.
Speaker A:He was in a secondhand year old Brabham entered by a North London garage and it arrived on the back of a trailer.
Speaker A:They had a Transit or a Bedford van with an awning and they were sandwiched in between the works, Brabham and Graham Hill's Embassy Shadow team.
Speaker A:It was just, I mean you couldn't make it up.
Speaker A:I was so glad I took a photograph of that because it did start to dwindle after that.
Speaker A:All roundabout then.
Speaker A:So yeah, I mean that just epitomizes what it was like from the privateer.
Speaker A:But yeah, the cows used to turn up and Grand Prix cows used to turn up on the back of trailers exactly as you described.
Speaker B:Now the one thing is going back to the book, I mean it's.
Speaker B:There's a lot of photographs in it.
Speaker B:There's a lot of photographs on the front cover.
Speaker B:How big is your archive of these?
Speaker A:Well needless to say, you know there's an awful lot more didn't make the bob than did.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:For various different reasons, not least that we trace, you know, quality.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I don't think Darren and Kevin who formed bhp, I don't think they were expecting me to actually come out with as much waffle as I did.
Speaker A:So that had an effect on the amount of photographs that made it as well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:How have these little photographs, have they survived?
Speaker B:All right, because I mean not being funny, the images from those little Kodak cameras were never meant meant for any longevity, were there?
Speaker B:It was mainly due to the processing process and the paper they were printed on.
Speaker B:They weren't designed to last.
Speaker A:No, I mean all mine apart from.
Speaker A: l from the British Grand Prix: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they're all slides as opposed to prints from there on.
Speaker A:And yeah, if, if I wasn't just a natural hoarder of everything the book wouldn't have happened because so many of my so much of my stuff would have just been lost over the years.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A: of the films I mentioned the: Speaker A:The results from that film, honestly, I was.
Speaker A:I was probably even at the time tempted just to bin the whole lot.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:They were so disappointing.
Speaker A:But thanks to current modern technology and the fact I didn't throw them away, I managed to resurrect some of them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, it.
Speaker A:And also you mentioned the fact that the images were all square and you're right, they were two things really.
Speaker A:Firstly, in the book you'll see that not all of them are reproduced as square.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, that's a simple artistic license being used in terms of cropping them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:To various different reasons.
Speaker A:Space.
Speaker A:But also some of the images, there's just so much background that's not relevant or interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they're cropped into suit.
Speaker A:But the other thing that I discovered in the process of putting the book together and settling my images was the fact that on some of them, just through frustration and being inquisitive, they're all in cardboard mounts or all the Kodak ones were.
Speaker A:And where I've got pictures where the little tip of the car, normally the front is missing, hugely frustrating.
Speaker A:And it occurred to me one day I thought, if I take it out of the mount, I wonder if I'll find a bit more.
Speaker A:That bit is missing.
Speaker A:And lo and behold, on most of them I did.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So some of the images where there's a bit missing, that's frustrated me enormously.
Speaker A:Over the decades I've actually uncovered the bits of it, literally.
Speaker B:Stuart Dent, it's been a pleasure chatting to you about volume one of both sides of the barrier.
Speaker B:When are we likely to see volume two?
Speaker A:Did you say when, Mark?
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker A:We haven't really talked about it.
Speaker A:Myself and the guys at BHP over and above the fact that it's obviously planned because the B side has already been mentioned in public.
Speaker A:But yeah, hopefully it'll happen.
Speaker A:But no datas yet.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But I hope when it does come out to get me hands on a copy and to will welcome you back to the Backseat Driver where we can talk about the continuation of your career.
Speaker A:Well, it would.
Speaker A:It would be a pleasure to do.
Speaker B:So, Mark, but until then, Stuart Dent, it's been a pleasure chatting and thanks very much for coming on the Backseat Driver radio show.
Speaker A:Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker A:I've enjoyed it.
