Rallying Through Time: The Legacy of Nigel Worswick
In this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, we explore the illustrious career of rally driver Nigel Worswick, who rose to prominence in 1996. Nigel shares the origins of his passion for motorsport, reflecting on his childhood influences and the family connections that shaped his journey. He takes us through the highs and lows of rally driving, offering firsthand insight into the challenges and triumphs he has faced throughout his career.
We also discuss the evolution of rally cars, particularly the shift from two-wheel to four-wheel drive, and how this technological leap transformed the sport. With Nigel’s veteran perspective, this episode offers a deep dive into the exhilarating yet demanding world of rallying, capturing the skill, strategy, and resilience required to compete at the highest level.
___
You can listen to more motoring chat in all its forms on my very own radio show on Drystone Radio
___
Visit our sponsors
Bridge House Farmhouse Tea Rooms
Mentioned in this episode:
SAS Autos
For over 20 years, Specialised Automotive Services has provided high-quality, affordable automotive maintenance and repairs. Featured in Lancashire Life and a recipient of their Auto Services Award, the company specialises in vintage and classic car restoration, auto electrical work, and general repairs. https://sas-autos.co.uk
Transcript
Well, the main reasons being, and I don't think he would disapprove of this.
Speaker A:A lot of the top drivers managed to crash where he and his four wheel drive Citroen Sierra Cosworth did marvelous things.
Speaker A:And like a lot of people, I used to sit down at half past 10 at night, quarter to 11 and watch the highlights.
Speaker A: And: Speaker A:Nigel, welcome to the backseat driver.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How did it all start?
Speaker A:Because I mean the, the Worziks are racing families, aren't they?
Speaker A:I mean you rally, you used to race a lot.
Speaker A:Your brother Tolly was famous for racing the bright yellow Ferrari 308 rally car of which was probably the only one knocking about at the time.
Speaker A:It's just in the blood.
Speaker A:How did it all start?
Speaker B:Well, we had no motorsport background at all.
Speaker B:My dad liked a nice car but he was not into motorsport at all.
Speaker B:Yeah, but he made the mistake of buying us a scale electric when we're a kid and I think that's what started it off.
Speaker B:Obviously brother's four years older than me so he would get to drive a car before me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I navigated for him and we sort of went into rallying and stuff like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it just sort of carried on from there really and escalated.
Speaker A:What was the family reaction to this?
Speaker B:I don't think there's any real problem, to be honest, because we worked on the cars and we didn't have a lot of money, to be honest, so we had to do it all ourselves.
Speaker B:So my dad was just quite happy to let us use the workshop, fix.
Speaker A:The cars, goes out, kept me out of mischief.
Speaker B:I don't think he saw quite.
Speaker B:Quite so the point of it because obviously when a generation grew up and a car in a family is quite a rare thing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:See somebody make a nice car car and go out and roll it.
Speaker B:So went against the grade but because it didn't affect anything either him or anything else, we just fixed it.
Speaker B:He just goes, well, you know what they're doing, let them carry on.
Speaker A:And the other strange thing is you take a nice car, you turn it into rally car, you roll it, you spend all the following week repairing it, making it nice again.
Speaker A:Then you go out the next weekend and make a mess of it again.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, the plan is not to roll, of course.
Speaker B:That's where the Skill comes in and I've certainly got better at avoiding that sort of thing.
Speaker B:But if you're going fast enough to do well, you're going fast enough to have a crash.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can't point to me.
Speaker B:Any single driver who hasn't had a crash or a Nadia who's done any good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it just goes with the territory.
Speaker A:Well, not being funny, I mean the two names I quote frequently, arivatanan and Colin McRae, they were either sensational or barked it up a tree.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I mean, at that level they're all amazing.
Speaker B:But I mean, that probably cost them more World Championships because you get some like Tommy Machina, who didn't and won four World Championships, so he might have just been a bit more steady.
Speaker B:McRae.
Speaker B:Everyone thinks that McRae being fantastic and he was, you know, Vatnam was, but they didn't win as many world champions as they possibly could.
Speaker B:Yeah, but we love them because of the way they drive.
Speaker B:We just, you know, that driving is fantastic to watch, you know.
Speaker A:What was your first rally car?
Speaker B:Mine was a Mark 1 escort and what it was, it was a car that was owned by the company and when it came to the end of his life, it was getting a bit rusty and stuff like that.
Speaker B:My father kindly said a year or two before, to be honest, for every pound you save up, I'll match it when you come to buy a car.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I'm in this saving, we'll get this bit of money together and everything and yo and behold that my money doubled, if you will, happened to be just the right amount to buy the Smart one s.
Speaker B:But it had like a rusty left front wing and in my bedroom had a pair of Bilsteins and a pair of Super Oscars ready to go and a pair of Turrets when I got here.
Speaker B:I've been taught how to weld here.
Speaker B:So when I got it, we'll just.
Speaker A:Point out now, Nigel and his brother and his family own an engineering firm.
Speaker A:That's where this knowledge comes from.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I sort of did a full apprenticeship within the company, but it wasn't a soft apprenticeship.
Speaker B: nk the first job was to drill: Speaker B:The fact that I remember means it wasn't a particularly, you know, and just got paid the same way as everyone else.
Speaker B:So I've learned every single skill in the factory, but it comes in useful when you're trying to fix a rally car.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I can weld the machine, fabricate stuff, drill stuff, you know, you know, all the skills of Fixing cars.
Speaker B:Otherwise I couldn't afford to do it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it, it both.
Speaker A:Motorsport isn't a cheap hobby no matter what anybody ever says.
Speaker A:And there's all these schemes.
Speaker A:Oh it's cheap.
Speaker A:You can do it, you can do navigation rallies in your everyday car but it's.
Speaker A:That's at the very, very basic of it all but so I mean you must have started to do reasonably well because I mean it's progressed and progressed and progressed.
Speaker A:I mean were you motoring news era?
Speaker B:I never really drove on night rallies.
Speaker B:I was saying earlier on I actually navigated my brother and we did a navigational rally, quite a big one which you don't have nowadays, a novice night rally for novices.
Speaker B:And we started car 17.
Speaker B:I was navigating and we got back to Preston and we were the first one there and I thought oh my goodness, I've made the biggest mistake ever.
Speaker B:What have I done?
Speaker B:Rather Mr.
Speaker A:Page, you.
Speaker B:It turned out we hadn't.
Speaker B:We had basically other people we'd either overt or they'd overshot or they got lost and we got back and we're actually first overall.
Speaker B:So I won a rally navigating before I was 17 driving but navigating for me brother to see somebody drive, to sit in a rally car and see somebody better than you drive.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Helps you.
Speaker B:You then go out and drive your car and you realize what it can do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So when I was 17, 18, whatever it was, I nicked all his seeding Bor's then girlfriend as a co driver.
Speaker B:Not in a bad way.
Speaker B:And we entered a rally stage rally called the five stages and we managed to beat a.
Speaker B:See we did okay.
Speaker B: It was only: Speaker B:So that's how I started rallying.
Speaker B:I started stage rolling.
Speaker B:I've done very, very little driving on night rallies.
Speaker B:Very little because it was on.
Speaker A: oke about at the introduction: Speaker A:I mean how did that all come about?
Speaker A:I mean you'd entered the Lombard RAC and everybody hoped you did well but none of us, not being funny, truly expected to see you up there with the best.
Speaker A:Well no disrespect to your driving in.
Speaker B:Your car to be honest, it was a weak year.
Speaker B:It's what we call the two wheel drive year because it wasn't full wheel and I'D done the RSC a few times in 93.
Speaker B:It was really, really snowy and I'd done the whole lot.
Speaker B:We finished fairly well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:What, it was 20th or something.
Speaker B: Anyway, in: Speaker B:We turned them into Kershaw and straight away they came off a dry road into the forest.
Speaker B:There was snow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, God, I don't want to do this again.
Speaker B:You know, I really need to.
Speaker B:Anyway, we caught them past somebody who ended up finishing sixth on the rally and we ended up finishing 11th by one second for a 10th overnight.
Speaker B:But the biggest reason is in the middle of the forest, in the middle of the night, we came across a Marshall waving like crazy in the middle of the road.
Speaker B:There must have been a massive accident around this bend or something.
Speaker B:So I'm fighting on the sheet ice and eventually I had to throw it down the ditch to slow it down enough.
Speaker B:Punctured both right on the tires and there was nothing there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we had to stop in the stage and change two tires.
Speaker B:So instead of being six overall, we're 11 by one second.
Speaker B:But just going back to you saying, it's all over the tv.
Speaker B:There's a story there.
Speaker B:My mother and father, they didn't really come and watch a lot.
Speaker B:They came.
Speaker B:Occasions came to Greystoke and they'd seen me on Gisborne when I'd done that.
Speaker B:Anyway, they were at home and our agent was over from America and they're all sat in the front room watching the tv, watching this RAC rally coming.
Speaker B:And as you say, I think Gwyndaff Evans hit this thing in Chatsworth House and rolled his car and flattened the roof.
Speaker B:Who was the other one in that Renault?
Speaker B:McGann.
Speaker A:There was a McGann rolled it and.
Speaker B:Yeah, so we were running quite high up at that point.
Speaker A:Mikola made a mess of it, didn't he?
Speaker B:No, he wasn't doing it.
Speaker A:I thought there was another.
Speaker A:There were a couple of big names, made a right mess of it.
Speaker B:But anyway, basically these two cars rolled and a few minutes later they're all sat there and the TV sort of saying, and next on the stage we have Nigel Worswick and then my mother.
Speaker B:You can watch me like a mother's like, you know, absolutely sure we're going to roll this down the road or something.
Speaker B:Anyway, we managed to avoid it in a straight stump that they both hit and got through.
Speaker B:It was a very, very tricky stage.
Speaker B:The whole rally was tricky, to be honest.
Speaker B:Really really icy.
Speaker B:But we set some genuinely good times.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And particularly through Mid Wales on the last day, some sixth overall times and stuff like that and second overall at what's it called, Race circuit, something like that.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But as I say, it wasn't a full WRC year.
Speaker B:But the frustrating thing is we've been 10th overall the night before and we just, just went too careful on the last stage.
Speaker A:I was going to say, how do you strike a balance between maintaining competitive speeds and stage times, but making sure that you don't write the car off?
Speaker A:Because I mean, at the end of the day you're people like Gwyndaff Evans who if he wrecks a works Renault, so what if Nigel Worswick wrecks his car?
Speaker A:It's your car, you have to drag it back to your workshops and start again type of thing.
Speaker A:How do you strike this balance?
Speaker A:What do you do?
Speaker A:Do you back off or what?
Speaker B:It's very, very difficult.
Speaker B:I was interviewed on the radio just before the RAC that year and they said, oh well Nigel, you've been winning a lot because I think we won something like the Cambrian and whatever Silvers and so are you going to win the RAC rally?
Speaker B:And that's what I had to politely explain.
Speaker B:Well, no, they said, why not?
Speaker A:Why not?
Speaker B:I said, well the trouble is I'm spending all week at a desk earning the money and working to afford to do it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I said, I don't get any practice, I'm using second hand tires, slower.
Speaker B:I said, and the guys I'm up against, the factory drivers, they'll be out testing the whole week before on the back of doing a full world championship.
Speaker B:Said, so when we set off down the first straight into the first 90 right bend, there's only three places to brake and too early, bang on the right spot or too late.
Speaker B:Yeah, If I break too late once on the whole rally, hundreds of miles of it, I'm off.
Speaker B:Yeah, sit.
Speaker B:You're out of the rally.
Speaker B:If I break bang on every time, that'd be pretty good.
Speaker B:I'd be some driver.
Speaker B:So I, I sent to, I obviously like all the amateurs or whatever.
Speaker B:Even the good amateurs break that little bit earlier.
Speaker B:We're not quite that committed because we're just not that in practice, you know, you just can't afford to be.
Speaker B:It's expensive to put the mileage in.
Speaker B:So what you've got to do really is play on, go fast.
Speaker B:Yeah, but try for a rally like that, try and make sure you finish, you don't make any big stupid Mistakes or get stuck in a ditch.
Speaker B:Don't do something like that.
Speaker B:It's like the old saying, to finish.
Speaker A:First, first you've got to finish.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But if you start with that mentality, you never win anything.
Speaker B:So that's to a bit of craziness involved as well.
Speaker B:And I think Clive that year said these rallies said, I know they're long, but let's just set off like a sprint event.
Speaker B:Let's just shoot every.
Speaker B:Because, you know, we've got a fairly good history of staying on the road.
Speaker B:So let's just take every stage, like a separate stage.
Speaker B:Just go for it.
Speaker C:Yeah, Yep.
Speaker B:All right, we'll do that then.
Speaker B:Within the limits of what I've just said.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I mean over the years you've rallied rear wheel drive and then four wheel drive was the transition for you gradually.
Speaker A:And what made you suddenly want to go from a rear wheel drive car, which is delightfully spectacular from a spectator's point of view, into a four wheel drive.
Speaker A:When did the transition come and what made you do it and to what was the car?
Speaker B:It was an exact point in time and I remember it absolutely perfectly.
Speaker B:We're doing the Ata Lombard RAC Rally in a whale tail Sierra cosw, not a sapphire.
Speaker B:So a two wheel drive car and I was queued up behind some foreigners, one in the midst of bishigger lands and one air Lancia into Grali.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we're setting off into Grizedale and they just revved it up, shot up the road, both of them.
Speaker B:And I revved up.
Speaker B:So I'm just spinning the wheels to know this.
Speaker B:So I thought, people are coming to our rally.
Speaker B:This is our specialist.
Speaker B:Are we're supposed to know what we're doing?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:In better equipment than we've got.
Speaker B:So I decided that there's somewhere other to get my hands on a four wheel drive car.
Speaker A:Just putting in, I mean like the first four wheel drive car that everybody recognized on rally was the Quattro, wasn't it?
Speaker A:And it just set the world alight because of how it did it.
Speaker A:And I must say, the sound, you'd also the pleasure of the, the black volcano itself.
Speaker A:Michel Mouton driving.
Speaker A:But I mean it's moved on from there because I conclude by that time the Quattro was all technology.
Speaker B:Well, the, the modern cars nowadays have improved in so much because the Quattro had locked four wheel drive and the engine overhang in the fronts.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there's also a lot of turbo lag.
Speaker B:So people like Blanquist are Brilliant.
Speaker B:Because they came from front wheel drive background.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So those old school four wheel drive cars really suited front wheel drive drivers, including my Sapphire Cosmos 4 before.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It takes you quite a long time to learn it.
Speaker B:You know what, what you should be doing, start a completely different technique.
Speaker B:If you've come, like me, from a rear wheel drive background.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Modern cars are much better.
Speaker B:They're much better balanced.
Speaker B:They don't have the same turbo.
Speaker B:Like the engine's better balanced and they have much longer stroke suspension, so they ride anything.
Speaker B:So they're like night and day compared with the Quattro in terms of what they'll do and how good they are.
Speaker A:Because I once read one article and I must confess, I don't know whether it's cancuning or not, but he'd worked out the turbo lag so he, to make sure he kept up speed, was back on the throttle at a point in time when most people wouldn't because he was anticipating.
Speaker A:By the time I get to there, the lag will have gone, the turbos will be firing and off we go.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And that's what I did.
Speaker B:Going back to the whale tail Sierra Cosworth, which didn't have a restrictor, it was relatively a big turbo, but a lot of lag.
Speaker B:I went up during the Galloway hills to learn how to drive this car.
Speaker B:And basically what you do is you come flying down a road, if you have to brake, you throw it in and you hit the throttle before you go into the bend.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:And it then.
Speaker A:Which isn't technically an insane time to do it.
Speaker B:It takes a while to get used to doing that.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:So what happens is it builds up boost during the bend.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you've got too much, you can then ease it back a bit.
Speaker B:But if you haven't done that, you're losing that on every single bend.
Speaker B:And the other technique I found is just try to stay on the throttle, stay in a high gear, just keep.
Speaker B:Just steering things.
Speaker B:So you absolutely have to slow down.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:Roundup.
Speaker B:Now, to give you an idea, Alan, prosthetics bloke who'd never spun a car ever.
Speaker B:When he came out of the turbo issue out of it and he went into naturally aspirated.
Speaker B:He kept spinning the car.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because he was doing that exact same technique that better drives than me and me did, which is flooring the throttle on the entrance of the bend.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Waiting for the boost to build up and all the rest of it.
Speaker B:Because it wasn't doom in that chest bedroom.
Speaker B:He's right.
Speaker B:So somebody's good at that.
Speaker B:He really never split a car ever before.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I mean, the other thing we were talking before we went on air was technique.
Speaker A:And even in two wheel drive cars, you said watch the big boys and watch where the front wheels are and watch how they set a car compared to people who think they're good.
Speaker A:And I mean, what is that technique?
Speaker A:I mean, I'll let a rally driver explain this.
Speaker B:It's mostly on gravel and the idea is you should be very sideways into a tight bend and come out dead straight with all the wheels facing forward.
Speaker B:Not enough attraction.
Speaker B:But the idea is, well, it's a safety thing as well.
Speaker B:Bizarrely, as you come up to say a 90 degree bend, you can see whether there's big rocks on either side of the road.
Speaker B:And if there isn't, you throw the thing square onto the road and you get it all.
Speaker B:By the time you get to the apex, you should be pointing the right direction.
Speaker B:You should go back on the throttle.
Speaker B:And if you're doing that, you're not going to clutter big rocks on the ditches on either side.
Speaker B:If you go in straight, which a lot of them, perhaps later numbers and you'll see the difference.
Speaker B:If you ever go out watching a rally, the top boys are sideways in, straight out.
Speaker B:The later guys were just starting maybe going a bit scared, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Understeer and then hit the throttle and they're coming out with the back wheels in the ditch.
Speaker B:But then you can just hit whatever God provides.
Speaker B:Could be a log, could be a rock, whatever, you know, because you can be committed to that.
Speaker B:So you can't do it.
Speaker B:And so if you watch the ultimate drivers be in Mikola back in the Escort or people in four wheel drive cars, you'll see mid bend, they've virtually got no opposite lock on, on a perfect bend.
Speaker B:The car is already facing the way it wants to go, even though it's only halfway around the bend and they're hard on the throttle.
Speaker B:They're really good guys.
Speaker A:I mean, one of the cars I was once a passenger in was a 6R4.
Speaker A:And I've never been in a car that changed direction or twitched about like it.
Speaker A:I mean, would you, would you drive all of them like that or are there cars that are different to that?
Speaker A:Some cars are unique to drive.
Speaker A:I mean like a 6R 4 is.
Speaker A:I was actually glad to get out of it.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:The only time, well, the first or only time I've ever been to 6R4 with Cyril Bolton A friend of mine who sadly passed away recently and he took me out in his 6R4 and it was on intermediate tyres I think were on the public road.
Speaker B:It was a back road and.
Speaker B:And he wasn't an idiot so he's a sensible driver.
Speaker B:But I should know what I was doing.
Speaker B:I'd just done the Manx in the Whale Tail, Sierras on Cosmos on slicks but you think I have a bit of an idea about what's possible and et cetera, et cetera took me down this road.
Speaker B:It was a favorite road and we're coming up to this 90 degree right hand bend and I looked and I don't really apply the brakes or not and thought not only we're not going to make this bend we're going to knock that gate right off its hinge and we're going to be halfway into that field.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he just stood on the brakes, he just stopped.
Speaker B:Well not stopped completely lost all the speed he went around the bend.
Speaker B:No drama.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he said when he first got it, I think he went to one of his race on the Aintree and he overtook somebody into a chicane and braked.
Speaker B:I think he was union course car.
Speaker B:It was that effective.
Speaker B:They nearly ran in the back.
Speaker B:So four wheel drive is an amazing thing.
Speaker B:Cars do differ.
Speaker B:The Sapphire cos was a long thing and it was quite stable but it was quite difficult up to chuck.
Speaker A:I mean that's the one thing.
Speaker A:I mean back then it didn't strike anybody as strange but when you started to watch well especially you on television you suddenly realize what a big car they were and you occupied a lot of space and there was.
Speaker A:They were long and everything else.
Speaker A:How did this affect things?
Speaker A:You just drive them accordingly because I conclude they had a slight, a slight pendulum effect.
Speaker A:All that, all that car stuck out behind you.
Speaker B:It swings and roundabouts.
Speaker B:If you get a very short car it can be very twitchy and that can be good on narrow twisty stuff but on flat out stuff it might not be that stable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And something like the Sapphire was very long but it was very stable on very fast sections of forest.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But maybe not so nippy in and out of the twisty bits and there's a lot of technology goes into it even at that level how the differentials are set up and if you.
Speaker B:I set them all up right.
Speaker B:And then I found out that on sheet ice if you pull the handbrake you're pulling the locking the back wheels but the transmission was that tight.
Speaker B:It locked the front Wheels as well.
Speaker B:So he came to a hairpin pull the handbrake, which is the right thing to do, you know, and it just locked all four wheels on sheet ice.
Speaker B:Yeah, that'll be fine on gravel because there's enough grip there to overcome it.
Speaker B:But so you quickly have to adapt and go, that doesn't work.
Speaker B:What am I going to do next?
Speaker B:You know, so, you know, it's always a learning curve.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, like with you and the Ford, you've always had a love of the Cosworths, haven't you?
Speaker B:I love Fords generally, yeah.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I started off in Mark 2 Escorts.
Speaker B:I love Mark 2 Escorts.
Speaker B:I only had one deviation for a year away from that with an Opel Manta gte.
Speaker B:Nice ish car.
Speaker B:But it had a problem with the engine management so I kept stopping.
Speaker B:So, yeah, sort of fell out with it a bit, but still a good car and I've stayed befores ever since.
Speaker B:I actually ride a Capri 3 liter.
Speaker B:I don't remember that.
Speaker A:Oh, no, I must confess, I don't.
Speaker A:I don't remember that.
Speaker A:I remember you caught your Sierras and one of the cars you're famous for, of course, another one is the Escort Cosmos.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, just nipping back to the Capri.
Speaker B:I know we skipped it.
Speaker B:It's actually a race car.
Speaker B:It's next Vince Woodman car that Mike Newman owned and I bought.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, and we changed it to the gravel.
Speaker B:And the first rally or two, we had no success with it, partly because the first rally was a rush and it was on Silverstone gearing as if it was on slicks.
Speaker B:So we put forest tires on it.
Speaker B:So it would do 170 mile an hour in theory.
Speaker B:So I did the whole of the Cairnog in first and second gear.
Speaker B:It was that long, you just hadn't time to sort it.
Speaker B:And then it blew the engine up on the Manx.
Speaker B:I thought, I've done the wrong thing here.
Speaker B:Anyway, we sorted it out.
Speaker B:We won Group A on the Peter Russet, Group A on the Mueller and we finished third in Group A on the Audi Sport, which doesn't sound two great except when you work out the Pentiaricola won it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Mike Stewart was second in a works Rover.
Speaker B:We were 11th overall in ICAPRI on a very, very big rally.
Speaker B:So it was a great car, funnily enough, actually slightly better in the forest than it was on Tarmac.
Speaker B:Anyway, Mike likes the car so much he contacted me a few months ago.
Speaker B:He was trying to track it down because he wants it back to put it back in a race car for his stables.
Speaker B:So I'm hoping he's managed to find it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I gave him all the info I could.
Speaker A:I mean ironically enough, one of my previous guests, Malcolm Graham, rally driver, he rallied the Capri for a while, three liter.
Speaker A:He thoroughly enjoyed driving it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And in the London to Mexico for Capris and London to Munich.
Speaker A:I know that doesn't sound a long way folks, but you'll find out why they went via the Sahara.
Speaker A:So I mean there are certain unlikely cars that have rallied.
Speaker B:Well, my brother actually put me onto the Capri and he rang me up one day, we were casting around what to do and it was group A that was very restricted.
Speaker B:He said how about a group A car that's got 250 horsepower, a close ratio gearbox, an Atlas.
Speaker B:So what the heck is it?
Speaker B:A Mustang, something like that.
Speaker B:He said no, it's a Capri.
Speaker B:And it was a Molegate.
Speaker B:With so many options for racing, it was brilliant.
Speaker B:So I rang my then sponsors up and sort of gave him the same spiel and he couldn't guess what it was either.
Speaker B:He said, well look, I trust you.
Speaker B:If you think it's going to be okay, then let's go with it.
Speaker B:So we did and it was, it was very successful, very unusual car.
Speaker B:Everyone thought it looked big, but it never felt big.
Speaker B:Yeah, just hump.
Speaker B:Well, you know, it had some, I.
Speaker A:Think from a sponsor's point of view, something like that is to their benefit because people will want to see it.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, it's a great car.
Speaker B:I mean we'd had the Opel Manta which was a nice looking car and then the Capri and then they carried on with this whale tail.
Speaker B:Sierra Cosworth.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then for various reasons they couldn't really sponsor me.
Speaker B:I forget why, it just came to an end by budget or something like that.
Speaker B:Anyway, I was coming to do the RAC one year and he rang me up, the guy From Nicolai, Pat O'Brien, he said I'm really sorry about this.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:He said, well, I found those little pots of money that I didn't realize was there, left it over.
Speaker B:Do you want it for the RAC rally?
Speaker B:I said well good, thank you.
Speaker B:They were great sponsors, really nice people.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, and so we did the RAC rally with the whale tail with Nicolet on it again.
Speaker A:Still, I mean it's one of them ironic things.
Speaker A:Over the years I've had sponsors and if you port company on good terms, it's Surprising.
Speaker A:They'll maybe come back for something.
Speaker A:You can ring them up a few years later and say, look, do you fancy being involved with this?
Speaker A:And a lot of the time, if you've got on well and party company under friendly terms, they'll come back maybe just for one event like you did.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And I'm going to do a name drop here, but it is a genuine one.
Speaker B:We're doing a talk down, I think at the aerospace.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there's Stuart Turner there.
Speaker B:I don't know how, they're kind of on the top tier with him, but we're on about sponsorship.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And run about getting sponsored and getting sponsored and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And I, I made a point saying when you get a sponsorship deal and the money, that's when the work starts.
Speaker B:It's not clear off with the money.
Speaker B:I said, you work to make it value for money so you feel the value.
Speaker B:And he was nodding headed.
Speaker B:Yeah, I forgot to say that.
Speaker B:I should have said.
Speaker B:He didn't say exactly that.
Speaker B:So, I mean, even recently took the Mark two over to a rally and a lovely lady came up and never had it before.
Speaker B:She turned up on a car park and said, do you mind if we sponsor you?
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, okay.
Speaker B:So they gave us some money.
Speaker B:It wasn't a huge amount but we put the stickers on everything like that and we gave them value for money's worth.
Speaker B:And I ran out of time but when I got back I got a picture of the car, went down to the place, got it printed off, put in a frame.
Speaker B:Yeah, this was abroad so I actually curried it to them.
Speaker B:So about two, three weeks later they got an email.
Speaker B:Oh, thanks very much for that.
Speaker B:And the treasury because.
Speaker B:Yeah, they'll put it somewhere.
Speaker B:That's up to there.
Speaker B:They put in the business because it was a business that sponsored us or put it at home.
Speaker B:And even after the rally they said, well that's our first toe in the water with sponsorship.
Speaker B:I'm really glad we did it.
Speaker B:And then a friend came on and said, can we join in and sponsor you next year as well?
Speaker B:So you know, that's teed up.
Speaker B:It's just by treating people right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we did a good job for them on the rally and then that little thing afterwards, unexpected.
Speaker B:They didn't know it was going to happen.
Speaker A:But I think that's one of the problems these days.
Speaker A:I mean I get people approaching me by email.
Speaker A:I want sponsoring.
Speaker A:Well, what have you done?
Speaker A:Oh, well, I haven't done anything yet.
Speaker A:I just want Sponsoring.
Speaker A:It doesn't work like that, Morrison crows.
Speaker A:You have to have, shall we say, demonstrated a degree of success and ability that people will take notice of you.
Speaker A:That's probably why you got approached, because you are a known rally driver and I've been for many years with quite a decent amount of success.
Speaker A:You're not exactly an office at this.
Speaker B:No, yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:It's not actually always about being successful, really.
Speaker B:It's about giving them some exposure back.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Now, you've probably heard a guy called Tony Jardine who used to Formula one.
Speaker A:I know him.
Speaker B:He doesn't do spectacularly well.
Speaker B:He does the RAC Roger Albert Clark Rally each year, but he works really hard to get sponsors and give them the bang for the buck.
Speaker B:So if it's like this new fuel or something like that, he'd be using that and advertising and, you know about it.
Speaker B:He gets in all the dailies and the papers and stuff like that.
Speaker B:So the sponsor in that case aren't expecting to win the rally, but they are expecting to get lots of exposure for what they did.
Speaker B:And I know one of my sponsors, when I was in the Sapphire.
Speaker B:Don't know how to say that, but basically they weren't.
Speaker B:I didn't think they were getting enough.
Speaker B:They had somebody who should have been getting value out of what we were doing.
Speaker B:So I decided to take it into my own hands.
Speaker B:So I wrote to, like, the electrical magazines and sent them a picture and a story and.
Speaker B:And got them something that they could just print straight away.
Speaker B:And so it was an electronics company and they did drives, electronic drives and stuff.
Speaker B:So there's a picture of me on the ice and snow and the headline was something like, you know, Alan Bradley was a sponsor that gives perfect control under all conditions.
Speaker B:Customer Nigel Words.
Speaker B:We drove his Alan Bradley Sport, you know, so they could use it just as it was.
Speaker B:Yeah, it gave him a really good bang for the buck.
Speaker B:It was sort of a tenuous link, but it was good enough, you know, and.
Speaker B:And there.
Speaker B:But I think their public people should have been doing more like that and end up hiding it for them.
Speaker A:The one problem is I'll get.
Speaker A:I'll probably get, shall we say, criticized for this.
Speaker A:Now, a lot of the younger people who do advertising don't know what they're doing.
Speaker A:In fact, that's my opinion.
Speaker A:They don't think as this.
Speaker A:That dreadful term out of the box.
Speaker A:They don't think, well, such a model you'd be interested in is send it to them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They might say, no, thanks but at least you've sent it to them.
Speaker B:Well, I think one time we were not lucky enough when we won the.
Speaker B:You remember the silver stage?
Speaker B:It used to be around here and we won it.
Speaker B:But I don't think there was a motoring news as it was then.
Speaker B:Reporter here and I thought if I don't watch it, this isn't gonna turn up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I wrote the whole article giving credit to everybody else and a picture of me and sent it to them.
Speaker B:They got.
Speaker B:Just banged it in straight.
Speaker B:It was because it was written in multi New speak.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they just read it and I thought, well, so there's a lesson if, if they're not going to report on it, do it yourself.
Speaker A:Now, I mean, you.
Speaker A:What do you.
Speaker A:I mean you've quite a selection of rally cars now, haven't you?
Speaker A:Because we've just had the pleasure of looking at one or two of them.
Speaker A:But shall we say you, you're not a man for all seasons, you're a man with cars for all seasons.
Speaker B:Well, it sort of happened by accident really.
Speaker A:The only thing I know about yourself and your brother, you tend not to part with cars.
Speaker B:It's not quite.
Speaker B: e and Clyde Molyneux built in: Speaker B:So I've had it for 23 years.
Speaker B:So it's sort of been paid off a bit really.
Speaker B:We had a lot of success with.
Speaker B:It's a fabulous car and it's probably better now than it ever was.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So for a while that was on my sort of only rally car and I got a Mark two, a clubby one just for messing around with and.
Speaker B:And that ended up being too weak.
Speaker B:Everything about it was just the gearbox, you know, wasn't strong enough.
Speaker B:So I sold it and I bought the current one, which wasn't a lot of money, but ended up doing it open.
Speaker B:It's better and better and better, but you see how.
Speaker B:So that would have been it.
Speaker B:But it's sort of a bit of a sad story in the same way as well that my mother passed away about two years ago.
Speaker B:Two years ago and my father has already passed away.
Speaker B:So I had a little bit of money from that and I thought, well before I'm too old, which probably already am really, let's try, let's try and get one of these new like top reg cars and try that and see how I get on with it.
Speaker B:So I always run.
Speaker B:If you look on the front bumper, if I can, it's got Alan and Edith written on the front bumper, which is my father and mother, because I always think it's their car, not mine.
Speaker B:And then so I got that and I've been running that and just trying to get the hang of it.
Speaker B:I'm just take a little bit of time.
Speaker B:I think we're getting there gradually now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because the other car you're really is a Fiesta.
Speaker B:That's the car.
Speaker A:That's the car.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the car I'm talking.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Because you also do wanted to you.
Speaker A:If you look at your social media.
Speaker A:You like Barbados, don't you?
Speaker B:Well, yeah, I mean, I actually don't do much rallying, so I tend to keep.
Speaker B:Put the money aside to do that each year.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I went years ago, literally as a once in a lifetime thing.
Speaker B:Let's just go and do this for the fun.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And a few other people have done that and it's fatal because everybody who's done it for the first time just end up coming back.
Speaker B:There's people who've done it for 20 years and stuff.
Speaker B:So it's just such a great welcome.
Speaker B:You get there over there and lovely people, great weather and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And this last time I did it, we didn't take it too serious.
Speaker B:Took the Mark II and just drove it sideways everywhere.
Speaker B:And the crowds are bezes, they love.
Speaker A:The art for the entertainment of all concerns.
Speaker A:I mean, we're so quick, but yeah.
Speaker B:The Bayesians, they watch all the world cars go past and like, yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker B:If you come up in handbrake or sideways or donuts or something, they go mental instantly, know what they want and you know they like and they make you real and they just go crazy.
Speaker B:So we enjoy it.
Speaker A:I mean, ironically enough.
Speaker A:And I know the interviews with you.
Speaker A:I took part in the Eiffel Rally in Germany on four occasions in the Historics with a friend of mine in his very, very famous 911.
Speaker A:And we were tagged on the back of the moderns, the modern WRC cars and everything else.
Speaker A:The organizers suddenly got used to the fact that the spectators had watched the WRC cars and everything else.
Speaker A:But the crowns doubled as soon as the historics were out.
Speaker A:They wanted to watch the old ones.
Speaker B:There's that.
Speaker B:And also on the last Barbados you get seeded by a rally.
Speaker B:The week before we had some issues with the gear change and basically we never set a proper time.
Speaker B:So we're seeded back at 53, which is not a problem.
Speaker B:Anyway, he put the onboard camera on for us because they were expecting great things on the first day, but we had throttle issues so we weren't too spectacular till the last three stages.
Speaker B:So the next day they put it on Car 60, which was an orange Mark 1 Escort.
Speaker B:A Beijing guy called Jason Crozier, I think.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Well, I saw some of the footage of him and I thought, well, fair enough because I thought I was ripping the place, but so was he.
Speaker B:But we're running together nearly at the end of the rally, so a bit like you were saying, all the spectators like, world car, world car, whatever.
Speaker B:And then he sort of petered off and then I arrived full sideways right up to the thing and then he arrives in this Oregon just to say so.
Speaker B:I am honestly sure that the Bayesians, well, they stayed there all day anyway because the way it's organized, you do loops, there's no point moving.
Speaker B:But I can't help feeling they were looking forward to these lower numbers coming through, driving like idiots.
Speaker A:I mean, from the cells.
Speaker A:As time has gone by and I'm not being funny, it's like we've said, we're both advancing in our years of what you just said.
Speaker A:Although your rally cars, of which you've a few are serious pieces of machinery.
Speaker A:I get the feeling now you do it more for fun and pleasure than to see your name on a leaderboard or on a result sheet.
Speaker B:You sort of have to, because there seems to be quite a large group now of particularly younger guys who seem to have very substantial backing, quite often family stuff and they're out every weekend, brand new tires, fuel stuff, the mileage you got under the belt and also the youth and bravery factor and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of them, so it's very, very tough to go up against them.
Speaker B:But I mean this car is a left hand drive car.
Speaker B:So I went to the test session when I first got it with the people who actually originally developed it and I was quite proud of myself that I'd driven around this left hand drive, you know, not hit anything.
Speaker B:I thought I'd gone fairly well.
Speaker B:And he came up and he says, yeah, really for a car like this you should be left foot breaking it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which I've never done or haven't done.
Speaker B:I mean, mine was thinking, well, I'm too old to start left foot braking stuff.
Speaker B:But what came out of my mouth was, okay, I'll give it a go.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I've had some practice at left foot braking, so I'm actually had to learn to left a left hand drive car and left foot braking, which I.
Speaker A:Because I'm not being funny, you currently drive as your old car the most un Nigel Werbeck like vehicle you could think.
Speaker A:You have an oldish left hand drive score de Fabia.
Speaker A:But it's like you were saying earlier on if something suddenly started to go wrong in a left hand drive car your mind or your brable switch switch to right hand drive and you can cause yourself all sorts of problems.
Speaker B:Well we're all the same.
Speaker B:It's actually Aaron Newby's recce car.
Speaker B:He's never driven anything with a left hand drive ever since he was 17.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I bought it off him and Stuart and then Neil Roscoe borrowed it for off me because he needed a left hand drive car for wrecking a couple of years ago and then John Stone was stuck for one bank so I led to him and both of them kind of looked after me.
Speaker B:So all of us drivers in the left hand drive cars need time in a left hand drive car particularly just before the event.
Speaker B:And what I could say is that I drove it back my first let's say go in a left hand drive car and you sort of say well you have to remember to drive in the gutter, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so you, if you sat in with me then on the way back you think seems to know what he's doing.
Speaker B:Yeah but it's not instinctive.
Speaker B:And then let's say not being funny.
Speaker A:If somebody's used to right and drive all the time all of a sudden there's this huge shift in weight.
Speaker A:You suddenly sense the car is not the bulk of the car is not to your left, it's to your right.
Speaker B:And that's the critical point.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean so a few weeks later it starts to become fairly natural.
Speaker B:But the trouble is if you spent years and years and years driving right hand drive cars you've got to drive a left hand drive car often enough that your instincts are now left hand drive you've got to break all those years and your natural instinct has to be opposite to what it has been all those years.
Speaker B:So if you get sideways over a crest and it's slippy tar might as a big gate or something like that.
Speaker B:You can't instinct put the wrong half of the car in the wrong point.
Speaker A:Of the road or you'll crash.
Speaker B:So I'm quite pleased could have a picture from three sisters and I'm clipping a pair of tires on the right hand side, the blind side by about an inch or two, barely, barely missing and I've not really hit the right hand side at all.
Speaker B:So it's been three years I've been driving it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm going to say can you recommend the score phobia?
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:Oh it's really economical.
Speaker B:It's an oldish car so if you're leaving on a car park and it gets a din subscribe not too bothersome.
Speaker B:I didn't get it does everything I want so I'm quite happy driving it around all the time.
Speaker B:Just jump.
Speaker B:The weird one is when you decide to drive a right hand drive car.
Speaker B:I flick back straight away the only thing that catch me I end up walking to the wrong door.
Speaker A:Wrong door and.
Speaker B:And when we took it once to Barbados and over there you know we're left hand drive car but then we're in a recce car which is right hand drive car and so an insulter injury is Japanese so the indicator washes the wrong way around so you go up to the wrong door.
Speaker B:Oh God.
Speaker B:Then you get in the seat and then you flash somebody with the washes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know so.
Speaker B:And then you've just got used to that.
Speaker B:The wrecky car.
Speaker B:This is for the week.
Speaker B:Then you're back of the rally car.
Speaker B:You do it all over again, you know.
Speaker B:So yeah.
Speaker A:Nigel, words week.
Speaker A:We could probably go on for a long time but thank you very much for joining me on the backseat driver.
Speaker A:It's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:Good to see you.
