Rally Driving and Skoda with Neil Simpson
It’s me, Mark Stone, and in this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, I’m joined by Neil Simpson, a distinguished name in rallying and the driving force behind Simpsons Skoda.
Neil shares his journey through the sport, from his early days influenced by a strong family connection to motorsport, to building a successful career both behind the wheel and in business. We explore the fascinating story of the Wartburg, a car that holds deep personal significance and ties directly to his family’s automotive past.
I dig into how rallying has shaped Neil’s life, the challenges he faced along the way, and how the sport has evolved over the years. We also discuss developments in vehicle technology and the changing landscape of the World Rally Championship, offering insight into where rallying is heading next.
This episode is a reflection on dedication, heritage, and the constant evolution of motorsport, seen through the experiences of someone who has lived it from multiple angles.
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Transcript
I'd like to introduce the backseat driver.
Speaker A:The first person I've ever met who still owns a Wartborg or Wartburg as we used to call them in England.
Speaker A:Ex works rally driver and the owner of Simpsons Skoda.
Speaker A:In this part of the world, in the north of England, you mention Skoda and the Simpson name is inexorably linked.
Speaker A:I think they've been around as long as Scalder at times, but.
Speaker A:Neil Simpson, rally driver.
Speaker A:Welcome to the backseat driver.
Speaker B:Thank you, Mark.
Speaker A:The Wart Borgs.
Speaker A:How did that come about?
Speaker A:Because I mean they were a fascinating car, weren't they?
Speaker B:Gosh.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, thank you for that.
Speaker B:Some introduction you've made for me there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So how did that come about?
Speaker B:Well, when my grandfather started the business back 82 years ago this year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One of the first franchises he held was.
Speaker B:Was Wartburg.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there was a good reason for that because coming out of the second world war, obviously Colm Nelson and Burnley were all mill towns.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he saw the opportunity for a very cheap family sized car.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That would be ideal for the community at the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he was very successful selling them.
Speaker B:And I got the opportunity to buy one a couple of years ago.
Speaker B:It's, it's, it's.
Speaker B:It's a very early one.
Speaker B:It's even the right color.
Speaker B:It's like a.
Speaker B:It's like a very sort of dark beige color.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And left hand drive and all the rest of it.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, do you know what, let's have that for the collection.
Speaker B:Because it's, it's symbolic in terms of where.
Speaker B:System where, where the Simpsons business.
Speaker B:I drove it, I did a classic car event in it last year and that's the first time I've driven it.
Speaker B:It's quite an experience to be fair,.
Speaker A:Because they have a peculiar like freewheeling system, all of that.
Speaker A:Yeah, they have.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They're two stroke engine with a freewheel.
Speaker B:So there's no engine braking or anything like that.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Let's say it's an experience.
Speaker A:And the other thing Simpson before went on air was said Simpsons at times seem to have championed the underdog because a lot of the brands you've sold at times have been standing jokes and then over time they've been proven to be not a standard joke.
Speaker A:They've been damn good guys.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Indee.
Speaker B:I mean obviously Wartburg was the first one and like, like I said, granddad saw the opportunity in the Colne and sort of Nelson area after the war for a cheap, affordable car for growing families and the like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then when they stopped, well, they were actually banned from coming into the UK because they smoked so much.
Speaker B:So, so, so granddad had to find a replacement and that's when larder came on, on, on the scene from Russia.
Speaker B:And they were, they were a cheap alternative to a Wartburg, seen as somewhat better than a Wartburg, but nevertheless still a cheap car and ideal for local people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I remember like a T32 tank.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Absolutely that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, but I remember my grandfather once saying, or a customer said to him, edgar, if I buy this car off yet, it's only, it's only £2,000 now, what will it be worth when I come and sell it back to you?
Speaker B:And he said, nothing.
Speaker B:But worth absolutely nothing.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:People say, all right, okay, at least I know where I stand.
Speaker A:But they were good cars.
Speaker A:I mean, I think it was the Neva, the four wheel drive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Only again, only available in left hand drive.
Speaker B:I remember my dad had one of those demonstrator and yeah, it was pretty horrendous orange.
Speaker A:They're nearly all dark green was all right.
Speaker B:And, and you could, you could almost put your fingers between the door aperture and the door.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:As you're driving along and it like rained in and.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, and it was brand new, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it did that then.
Speaker A:But once again, I mean, they go anywhere, won't they?
Speaker A:I mean they were a phenomenal little.
Speaker B:Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:So where did the rallying come from?
Speaker A:Because is it a, is it a family trait, motorsport?
Speaker B:Yeah, very much so.
Speaker B:I mean, back to Warburg days when Wartburg used to come to the UK to do the Lombard RAC Rally.
Speaker B:They based themselves at our dealership, the factory team.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So I think that's where the original interest from a, from, from the Simpson family came.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then sort of when I, when I came along, if you can imagine, most lads and dads have a, have a, a sport or an interest that they share, whether it be football or cricket or rugby or whatever.
Speaker B:Well, my father and me, I was rallying, Right.
Speaker B:And I, I was absolutely fanatical about it.
Speaker B:My father used to take me spectating on local road rallies on the, you know, right around here on Saturday evenings and then stage rallies on a Sunday.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And some weekends we go out on Saturday night, watches it, watch a stage, watch a road rally on, on Saturday night, then go out on a Sunday and watch a, a stage rally.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was sort of hooked on it from a very early age.
Speaker B:I think When I was 10 or 11, my dad took me out to Belgium to watch Condra's rally and we, we went out there and watched a couple of rallies, Belgium and France and the like.
Speaker B:So it was really our thing, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:And it went without saying that when I, when I was old enough, I would start, I would start rallying and I passed my driving test on my 17th birthday on the day and I did my first rally three weeks afterwards.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What in Talbot Sunbeam?
Speaker B:Talbot Sunbeam, Yeah, Talbot.
Speaker B: rally, Leckinfield Airfield,: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's where it all started at all, really.
Speaker B:Well, I think the, the, the, the idea was my father said to me, look, he said, I know, I know you're into rallying, I know you really want to do this and I know you just passed your driving test on your 17th birthday, ETC.
Speaker B:However, he said, I don't want you to drive like an idiot on the roads.
Speaker B:Yeah, you've seen how all these drivers drive.
Speaker B:He said, so what I'll do is I'll pay for you to do one rally in a rally car and get all this aggression out there out of your system, all this pent up desire and the like.
Speaker B:And I think he thought I'd crash.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that would be the end of it.
Speaker B:But, but we didn't.
Speaker B:And we finished, we finished 10th overall.
Speaker B:And then the sort of press got hold of it and it sort of gathered a bit, a bit of momentum.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then dad said, all right, okay, well, I didn't really expect that to happen.
Speaker B:Well done, you can do one more.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we went off and did another one a couple of weeks later.
Speaker B:I can't remember where that was actually.
Speaker B:And we finished fifth on that one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it sort of fired on him in many.
Speaker B:Very much so, I'm very much sure, yeah.
Speaker A:So, I mean, where did it progress from there?
Speaker A:So as I conclude, you'd be working for your dad at the time.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: im wasn't there until sort of: Speaker B:Yeah, 19.
Speaker B: Yeah, around: Speaker B:And I went to work for dad selling some cars, working in the workshop, working in the parts department, just getting a good sort of industry grounding as it, as it, as it, as it was.
Speaker B:And we were Peugeot dealers at the time.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I just worked and worked seven days a week and every penny that I earned, I saved up to do some more rallies.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:By this time, I decided you were there for yourself.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I mean, he made it really clear because I.
Speaker B:Because what.
Speaker B:What I didn't say is we went into another rally.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The third one.
Speaker B:And then we wrote the car off.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I sold it on the end of a tour up in the service part and came back with the empty trailer.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that was the end of that.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But it was a time, sort of early 90s, when Peugeot were very focused on rallying through the Peugeot GTR Challenge.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Colin McRae and Richard Burns were doing that and, you know, that was the place to be.
Speaker B:And I saved up as much as I could and.
Speaker B:And begged, borrowed and steeled to build a Peugeot 309 GTI.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And when.
Speaker B: the Peugeot GTI Challenge in: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's where the, the, the career sort of progressed from there, really.
Speaker B:Yeah, we had our ups and downs during that championship, but in.
Speaker B:When would it be 93, we were shortlisted for the Shell Rally Scholarship and that had been previously won by Alistair McCrae.
Speaker B: And then: Speaker B:Yeah, that's part of that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B: e British Rally Championship,: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Run by Harry Hockley.
Speaker B:And Alberta is the same.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Spotted by Shell.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker A:I mean, I conclude all the opportunities come besides winning the Shell Championship, et cetera.
Speaker A:Any driver who, shall we say, is above average performing above average gets spotted.
Speaker A:People, the manufacturers, I don't know whether they do it now because modern rallying has completely changed, but, I mean, they used to spot them.
Speaker A:It's like racing drivers, teams and manufacturers will make a note of eye on such a body's not doing badly.
Speaker B:I think the difference in those days was definitely the fact that the Peugeot Challenge was very well regulated in such that everybody had the same car.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:On the same tires, doing the same rally.
Speaker B:So it was the fastest driver that won.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it was very, very well policed.
Speaker B:So it was very, very tight, you know, tenths of seconds.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, anybody could win any rally.
Speaker B:And so the point system was really good as well.
Speaker B:And the bonus system for winning and, and, and the light was really, really attractive.
Speaker B:So it was a real Tangible way for anybody, like you say the factory teams and the like to look at a, look at the, look at the championship and go, right, right, who's, who, who's, who's the guy who's going to win this?
Speaker B:Who's the guy we want then to, to pilot our car in the British or the World Championship going forward?
Speaker B:And so that was, that was a really, really good, a really, really good asset to the sport.
Speaker B:I think nowadays much different, a lot more money involved, a lot more variables.
Speaker B:And I think these one make series really do highlight strong competitive drivers.
Speaker A:I mean, so it's happening in, I mean one of the podcast sponsors gas shocks 116 trophy.
Speaker A:They 116 BMWs.
Speaker A: Yeah, they are with the: Speaker A:Yeah, they are all identical and it's, it's driver ability and they are very heavily policed to these vehicles and it's pure driver ability.
Speaker B:And that's what it was like in the Peugeot challenge.
Speaker B:You know, they'd, if you, if you won, they think nothing about stripping your engine, stripping your gearbox.
Speaker B:You know, it was really, really good.
Speaker B:And like, you know, all the RAC MSA scrutineers were very much engaged in it.
Speaker B:There were no cheating.
Speaker B:Yeah, no cheetah.
Speaker B:So yeah, it was good.
Speaker B:And that, that allowed, that allowed you to drive at a level that was perhaps faster than you would like at that time.
Speaker B:You know, there was not.
Speaker A:In case you're sitting there thinking, bloody.
Speaker B:Hell, this is quick.
Speaker B:No more a case of like thinking, I daren't lift off because I know so and so won't, you know, and where, where, where you thought you were in fourth gear.
Speaker B:You think, well, I need to leave it in fifth here because somebody else wants.
Speaker B:You were really, really, you know, your eyeball dashboard.
Speaker B:I tell you, they really were.
Speaker A:Who was co driving for you this time?
Speaker B:Oh gosh, who was that then?
Speaker B:So throughout the Peugeot challenge, that was a guy called Steve Martin from Cumbria.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And his brother was helping on the service crew as well.
Speaker B:So yeah, Steve was co driving then.
Speaker B:And then when we, when did we, when did we go our separate ways?
Speaker B:1999, We drove for Volkswagen.
Speaker B:Um, and then, yeah, halfway through 99, Mike Gibson came along, who still co ds from today when I do any rallies.
Speaker A:Right, so after that, where, where did you move to after, after Nissan.
Speaker B:So after Nissan then that was a one year, a one year deal to do the British Rally Championship.
Speaker B:Like I say, supported by Shell.
Speaker B:And then Ford got in touch.
Speaker A:I mean you'll be moving in some illustrious circles by Now.
Speaker B:Well, it was, it was, it was busy times, Mark, to be fair, because I was, I was rallying as much as I could, but I was working for my father as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was seven days a week either doing something rally related or working in the business.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But you know, British rallying's a small, tight community.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I made it my prerogative to get out there and be known by as many people as possible.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, like I said, Ford, Ford got in touch and they were looking to build a team.
Speaker B:Boreham and Gordon Spooner had run Gwyndaff in the British Rally Championship for a few years and they were looking to broaden the, the scope of preparation firms that were involved with the factory and the like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we, we got a deal to drive one of Gwyndaff's old cars, a car from the year before, an Escort formula to escort in the British Championship.
Speaker B:Again, Shell supported us and it was won by a local motorsport preparation firm, Boland Motorsport.
Speaker B:Guy called Philip Boland in Elswick.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Phil ran us.
Speaker B:So there was us in, in one car, there was Gwyndaff in, in one of the other cars.
Speaker B:The Simonite sisters were in the third car and Harry Rompera, Kelly Rompera's father was in the fourth car.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that was the Ford team British Championship.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And how did you go on?
Speaker B:We did okay, I think when we're going, you know, when we, when we finished the rallies, we did, we did well.
Speaker B:I mean, we're lying second overall on the Manx and the engine blew.
Speaker B:I think we crashed on the Pirelli Scotland, we were, I think we're laying third and we hit a rock and brought the back axle.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it was, it was a year of ups and downs, but it was great learning year.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:A great learning year.
Speaker B:You know, some fantastic rallies right on the pace at the front with the top guys like Mark Higgins, like Gwend Evans, like Rovan Peron.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, the, the, the competition was so fierce.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You absolutely had to be on your, on your, on your air game.
Speaker A:I think that's the one thing with rallying.
Speaker A:You can be absolutely flying, you can be leading and you can be a fraction of an inch out on a corner and all of a sudden job's done you.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's.
Speaker A:And I think that's the thing, maybe more so with rallying than circuit racing.
Speaker A:At least on the circuit you can see what you're likely to eat.
Speaker B:That's rallying.
Speaker B:You get you.
Speaker B:You get your entry position of the Corner wrong by 10 centimeters and you're a meter out of the other side.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there's invariably something to catch you out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And all the while, besides Shella, who was sponsoring you, because I conclude that you are allowed to attract your own spot.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:So, Shell, the show were great show were obviously fantastic.
Speaker B:Really, really good supporters.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Suspension.
Speaker B:Gordon Burtwistle, he was always a phenomenal asset to us and.
Speaker B:And to me personally as a driver.
Speaker B:Who else?
Speaker B:Oh, we had Dunlop as well.
Speaker B:Dunlop were great.
Speaker B:Tony Leak at Dunlop Motorsport.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He always helped us out where he could with tyres and like.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the rest just from bag boring scraping.
Speaker A:So that's the one thing is you get better at it and you get faster at it and you move up it.
Speaker A:It gets considerably more expensive.
Speaker A:Doesn.
Speaker A:Gosh.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was.
Speaker A:Was dad able to help it were Simpsons.
Speaker B:No, no, dad was sort of hell bent on not helping me.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:It was very much, you know, this is your gig, you know, go, go and go and sort of.
Speaker B:Yeah, go and go and make it yourself.
Speaker B:I think he.
Speaker B:I think the help that dad gave me was more around the flexibility.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, to go testing and the like to.
Speaker B:To allow me to work in the dealership on a flexible basis.
Speaker B:But certainly no, no.
Speaker B:No money and no support.
Speaker B:And I worked as hard as I could selling cars.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they like to earn as much money as I could too.
Speaker A:So somebody came in the showroom on a Saturday afternoon.
Speaker A:You're not leaving until you bought one.
Speaker B:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:So how did you eventually move into Skoda and vw?
Speaker A:Because you've been, I mean, from Ford and Peugeot and everything else.
Speaker A:I mean, they were all biggish names, but I mean, like Volkswagen and Skoda.
Speaker B:Well, interestingly so.
Speaker B:But in order to get you a true perspective on that, I need to tell you about how I came to drive for Volkswagen.
Speaker B:So I'd been watching what Volkswagen were doing in the British Championship since driving for Nissan and a guy called Steve Bagnall was their team manager.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they were running Golfs for various Finnish drivers, Tapio Lakonen and the like.
Speaker B:And I really like the way they were investing in the car and the team that were running it and it looked like a good place to be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I used to go down to see Bagnell.
Speaker B:So I went to see Bagnell at the end of 94.
Speaker B:Sorry, 95.
Speaker B:When I've been driving for Nissan.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I knocked on his door and.
Speaker B:And he said to me, he said, you know what, what on earth are you doing here?
Speaker B:And I said, well, I want to drive one of your cars in the British Championship next year.
Speaker B:And he said to me, you're too slow and you're too skinny.
Speaker B:That's what he said to you?
Speaker B:That's what he said to him.
Speaker B:So that was a short meeting.
Speaker A:That was inspired you, sir?
Speaker B:Well, I was pretty furious with him, but it was quite a character.
Speaker B:So then I went back the next year, the end of 96, when I hadn't got a drive with Ford, and I've really nothing for 97.
Speaker B:And I said to him, look, I'm still really keen on what you.
Speaker B:What you're doing, you know, and I really want to get involved.
Speaker B:And he said, no, no, you too.
Speaker B:You're still too slow.
Speaker B:No, that was it.
Speaker B:He said, you got a bit faster, but you're still too skinny.
Speaker A:Yeah, go eat some more state bullets.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And actually, I sat out 97, did a bit of media work and the like, but at the end of 97, he rang me the Bagnol.
Speaker B:He said, look, he said, we want to win the British Championship.
Speaker B:We've got Alistair McRae and Tapio Laukonen driving on the Manx.
Speaker B:We want you to come to the Manx in one of our cars.
Speaker B:But we haven't got any budget.
Speaker B:Yeah, we've got a car, a van, a load of spares.
Speaker B:Come and pick the car and van up and all the spares.
Speaker B:Yeah, put your own team together, come to the Manx and finish in the top five.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's all we wanted to do.
Speaker A:All right, so nothing, nothing too dramatic.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:This is two weeks before the rally, so I went down to Wellingborough, picked up all the kit, brought it back to Colne, set a team up, went and did the British Championship final round on the Manx.
Speaker B:Alistair had a huge accident early on.
Speaker B:We were struggling a little bit.
Speaker B:I've never driven the car before.
Speaker B:Snapped the gear lever on the second stage, so we're stuck in second gear and then a wheel fell off and we, you know, we were struggling a little bit.
Speaker B:And then Tapio went out as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, he crashed and lost a lot of time.
Speaker A:Was all this improving your position?
Speaker B:It was improving our position, but we're still like six or seven to something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the other thing was, the engine was smoking.
Speaker B:Our engine was smoking like hell.
Speaker B:I got friends out spectating on the rally and they said, oh, you know, like, Alistair's doesn't Smoke.
Speaker B:Tapios doesn't smoke, but yours smokes like hell.
Speaker B:And he said, and the, the problem with that was Bagnolo had made me sign a contract to say that if I blew the engine up, I'd pay for it and 55 grand.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I didn't have 55 grand, so I was slightly worried about the engine.
Speaker B:And then the engine builder, Heinz Lehman, came over to me and he said, look, you know, you can get a lot more power out of this car.
Speaker B:You're not revving it hard enough.
Speaker B:You're only reven it to 7,000 revs.
Speaker B:These things rev to nine.
Speaker A:Nine.
Speaker B:And I said, well, what, what size engine was it?
Speaker B:Two liter, right.
Speaker B:Two liter.
Speaker B:Says, these are all right up to 9,000 revs.
Speaker B:I said, well, I've got a bit of a problem with that.
Speaker B:That guy sat in the motorhome over there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's made me sign a contract.
Speaker B:But if this engine blows up, I owe 50 grand.
Speaker B:Guess what?
Speaker B:I ain't got 50 grand, so I ain't going to be revving it any harder than I'm revving it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that's the end of that anyway.
Speaker B:But then when Alistair and Tapio had their problems, Bagnell came over to me and said, look, we need you to, like, get up the leaderboard.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because, you know, we really need to win this and, you know, you're.
Speaker B:You're our sort of silver bullet at the moment.
Speaker B:Well, two things have got to happen.
Speaker B:First of all, you've got to screw that contract up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I. I am having that hanging over my head.
Speaker B:So he did.
Speaker B:And he did it in front of my face, which was, which was.
Speaker B:Which was good.
Speaker A:Great sense of relief.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:I said, I said, you need to go through my car and make sure that, you know, get a new gear lever, put a new a.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:And one thing anyway, they put all the new bits on the car at service on the second night.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I went out on the, on the, on the last day and the car was like a different car.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Honestly, it was brilliant to drive.
Speaker B:Really, really well set up.
Speaker A:I did.
Speaker A:His ref, denying that I did.
Speaker B:Did.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they kept.
Speaker B:To be fair, they kept putting oil in it.
Speaker B:He was still smoking, but it got there.
Speaker B:Anyway, we got towards the end of the rally and we were beating Tapio and for them to win the championship, they needed Tapio to be in front of me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And a conversation took place at the TT grandstand.
Speaker B:Something like, well, if you, if you help us out, we'll Help you out next year.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that was the back end of 97.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:So the other, the other problem.
Speaker A:Where did you finish your door?
Speaker B:Well, the other, the other problem was that our car had Dunlop written all over it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:As Dunlop had supported us, the factory, the other two cars, Tapio's car and Alistair's car, were backed by Pirelli.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Pirelli had just got a contract to fit all the tires to the.
Speaker B:To the cars in the factory.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All the production cars.
Speaker B:And they didn't want the car to.
Speaker B:They didn't want my car to be the car.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That went over the finish ramp and won the championship.
Speaker A:We'd done like dog.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that was a problem.
Speaker B:And that was part of the deal that I then did for the following year.
Speaker B:I said, look, well, okay, I will slow down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I will let you do what you.
Speaker B:What you need to do.
Speaker B:Naturally.
Speaker B:But nevertheless, you know, we do need to talk.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they said, well, we'll definitely.
Speaker B:We'll definitely support you next year.
Speaker B:And that's where my career with Volkswagen started.
Speaker A:Yeah, because you're also the first man to rally a diesel Volkswagen.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Because interestingly, when we got to the end of the Manx and we were all celebrating that Volkswagen who won the championship and, you know, albeit we'd just done one rally with them and helped them get there, the head of Volkswagen Motorsport came up to me, a guy called Andre Van der Vott, a South African guy, and he said, I want you to come to Germany to see me and talk about next year on Tuesday morning.
Speaker B:Yeah, I want you there Tuesday morning.
Speaker B:So I thought, oh, it's fantastic, you know.
Speaker B: you a diesel car to rally in: Speaker B:And I thought, is that it?
Speaker B:Is that what I'm going to get?
Speaker A:Is that all I've got?
Speaker B:Is that, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, at least you want something.
Speaker A:They tell you it's smoking.
Speaker A:You can say, well, yeah, it's a diesel.
Speaker A:It will.
Speaker B:Thanks a lot.
Speaker B:I said, you know, but it turned out to be a phenomenal car.
Speaker B:We did the national championship in it in 98, and then we did the British championship in the later version of the car in 99.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just putting in.
Speaker A:It's a bit like the time when Audi, because numbers were down at Le Mans and Audi said, we'll run the diesel and everybody Laughed at them.
Speaker A:Well, look what happened there.
Speaker B:The two programs ran side by side.
Speaker B:So it was at a time when manufacturers were talking about alternative fuels.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Volkswagen Nail.
Speaker B:Excuse me, Volkswagen Groom nailed the colors to the masts and said, our alternative fuel is diesel.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they went to Le Mans with the.
Speaker B:Quite.
Speaker B:With the.
Speaker B:With the R8 TDR.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they went to the British Championship with us.
Speaker B:And they went to the Austrian Championship with Rem Baumschlager.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that's where the.
Speaker B:Back to your original question when you asked me, how do we become Skoda dealers?
Speaker B: hed driving for Volkswagen in: Speaker B:So I've got a great relationship with them.
Speaker B:And I took over Simpsons from my father.
Speaker B:The first letter that I opened as managing director of Simpsons was a letter from Peugeot that told me that they no longer wanted me as a dealer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So they terminated us and I needed a franchise.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I've built up some fantastic contacts in Volkswagen in Germany and some fantastic contacts here in the uk.
Speaker B:And I went down to Milton Keynes and saw Robin Woolcock, who was then the head of Volkswagen Group uk, told him what had happened.
Speaker B:I got a great relationship with him.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the talks began to take a Volkswagen Group franchise at that point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So was it VW with Skoda at the time?
Speaker B:So it was set.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:They wanted me to take seat.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we, we, we did some business plans and the like.
Speaker B:And I was sort of like, well, why do you want me to take sat?
Speaker B:And they said, well, you're a young guy.
Speaker B:It's a sporty brand.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's a good fit for you.
Speaker B:And I said, well, I think the Skoda brand's a better fit for us because we're a family business.
Speaker B:Skoda's a family brand.
Speaker B:Skoda have overwhelmingly impressive credentials in rallying.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're a rallying based family and a rallying based business.
Speaker B:And I think there's more synergies there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I mean, at the time, Skoda, I mean, like with John Hoagland, who is a past guest, I mean, he proved what a score could do.
Speaker A:I mean, once again, everybody.
Speaker A:There was all the jokes and everything else, but these things went and did rallies and finished.
Speaker A:I mean, John Oakland finished.
Speaker A:I think it was 51 RAC.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The only thing they did was virtually put a sump guard on it, a roll cage and a sump guard.
Speaker A:The rest of the Car was showroom.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I mean, I remember when I first took the Skoda franchise, I went to the pub with some friends for a drink after work and I walked in.
Speaker B:I didn't tell any of my friends what, what I was doing in the business or anything.
Speaker B:I put my keys on the bar and, you know, all my friends had Volkswagens or Audis or Porsches or whatever.
Speaker B:And I put my keys on the bar and it's scored a key.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I could see people sort of looking at the key and looking at me and going, has he lost the plot?
Speaker B:What's he doing?
Speaker B:And then, of course, I had an Octavia VRs outside.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I passed the keys around, nobody wanted to drive, and came by and went, oh, well, that's actually really a really impressive car.
Speaker B:I can see what you're doing.
Speaker B: sort of where it all began in: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then because you rally, did you rally for Skoda as well?
Speaker B:No, I only rallied.
Speaker B: a rally two in Europe between: Speaker B:So we did various European rallies, European championship rallies, world rallies with the Talksport team.
Speaker B:So I've never actually rallied for them professionally, but more used the fact that we're a Skoda dealer and rallying to promote the business and build social media likes and things like that.
Speaker A:Now, to backtrack a little bit, you did a lot of test driving from Volkswagen when you, I conclude, had you stopped rallying by then?
Speaker B:No, no, I was.
Speaker B:I was still rallying for them.
Speaker B:So that was.
Speaker B:When did.
Speaker B:I started in that.
Speaker B:That was 99, 98.99.
Speaker B:I was asked to go and do a test on.
Speaker B:On a golf kit car out in.
Speaker B:Out in Germany.
Speaker B:A very short notice.
Speaker B:It was one of those.
Speaker B:Call, is it.
Speaker B:Can you be there tomorrow morning, 5pm Call.
Speaker B:Can you be here at 8 o' clock in the morning?
Speaker B:Yeah, Pastor can.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, to be honest, I had a.
Speaker B:Out of.
Speaker B:Out of cycle on my bike, if I could.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Raymond Baumschlager was doing the test driver job at the time and he got busy doing something else.
Speaker B:So, I mean, he might have been ill or something and they just asked me to fill in.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I went and did a test and I did a test report afterwards and really got on well with the test.
Speaker A:So what, if you don't mind me asking, what exactly does a test involve?
Speaker B:So it can.
Speaker B:It can be anything.
Speaker B:So that particular One was a gearbox endurance test.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's just basically driving the car flat out all day around a rally stage.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Finding out where the strengths and weaknesses are of that car.
Speaker A:So to a degree it's a slight bit of a case of maybe destruction testing to see that particular.
Speaker A:To see if we can break the thing that is.
Speaker A:So why is it broke?
Speaker B:Yeah, that particular one was.
Speaker B:But I did all sorts of other things as well.
Speaker B:I did the formula Volkswagen which was a single seater.
Speaker B:They're on a championship out in Europe that followed Formula one for young drivers in a single seater and each car had to be the same as a formula Volkswagen and they could build two of these a week and there were 35 of them and I had to go and test every single one of them, sign it off as being the same as the last.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I also did the W12 Bentley W12 engine.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:Test.
Speaker B:Test work for that in a Lamborghini Merch Lago.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And did some endurance testing for Lamborghini as well.
Speaker B:So yeah, a thoroughly enjoyable times for a majority of the times.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:It's a dream job.
Speaker A:So in many way, I mean, what do you do now?
Speaker A:Because I mean, are you still involved with rallying?
Speaker A:I mean doing what you do and who you are, you cannot just walk away from this sport, can you?
Speaker A:No, it's like I've been fortunate to interview Louise Aitke Walker, Tina Turner, a lot of people who have had big rally careers and apart from Tina who now has a completely unrelated job.
Speaker A:But she's still too.
Speaker A:She appears and I know she cannot get in a rally car again because of health reasons, but I mean none of them can ever walk away from.
Speaker A:It can be.
Speaker B:You build so many friends, Mark so many good contacts, you know, it's an amazing sport, very cohesive sport.
Speaker B:You're right, you can't walk away and I'll never walk away.
Speaker B:You know, I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for my rallying career.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Both personally and in business.
Speaker B:So I o rallying.
Speaker A:I mean just looking in Simpsons is Scoreder mentioned Neil Simpson rallying.
Speaker A:They are.
Speaker A:Well, I mean they're obviously connected but when you talk to people.
Speaker A:Yeah, one's one, one's the other.
Speaker A:And you are Elliot.
Speaker B:Thank you for that.
Speaker B:I think so, yeah.
Speaker B:How am I involved today?
Speaker B:I'm involved with a couple of.
Speaker B:Well, they were young up and coming drivers and co drivers in the World Rally Championship at the moment.
Speaker B:One in particular help them from a mentoring and Business point of view.
Speaker B:Yeah, the business side of the sport.
Speaker B:I do quite a bit of consultancy with some teams as well who are running in the World Championship at the moment.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I love that, I love that side of things because it kind of brings the business element into.
Speaker B:Into the sport.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I do that still drive from time to time as well.
Speaker B:I don't have a car at the moment, but, you know, what's your special?
Speaker A:I shouldn't imagine you'll have any problems getting your hands on.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker A:If you ask Sunday nights it'll.
Speaker A:When do you want?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, we did have one, we did have one coming but I was too busy to use it and so it ended up going, going to Toxport and being used by one of those.
Speaker B:One of our drivers.
Speaker A:Now I.
Speaker A:You watch coverage of modern WRC on television and the only has ever seemed to show the top five.
Speaker A:But I mean are Skoda and Volkswagen still evolved?
Speaker A:Because in my opinion the lesser, the lesser classes don't get the exposure they deserve.
Speaker B:No, it's a problem and it's a well recognized issue across the sport just now the current promoter is actively trying to sell the WRC to a different promoter.
Speaker B:So hopefully that'll change things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because the other thing, I mean ultimately sponsorship, if a sponsor.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:If you go to the event, you'll see the car, you'll see me, all this.
Speaker A:But besides that, they want it, they want global exposure, which means television and then they just never seen.
Speaker A:Which is terrible.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:Terrestrial TV is a struggle.
Speaker B:I think when the new promoter comes in, you'll see a lot of changes.
Speaker B:I'm hearing a lot of really positive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Noises coming, coming from there.
Speaker B:Certainly.
Speaker B:Skoda still very much involved in WRC2.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Been WRC champions year after year with the Fabio RS Rally 2.
Speaker B:The team that run that talksport.
Speaker B:My friends out in Germany, one of the teams that I do some consultancy with, they've always run my cars for me as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So yeah, very, very much involved.
Speaker B:And of course the new regulations coming out now, it may be, you never know that they'll build a, a Rally one car.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's keep our fingers crossed.
Speaker A:And what's your view on modern rallying?
Speaker A:I mean like you watch the latest what, what you see on TV and I described it's like a form of 3D PlayStation or the computer games are available.
Speaker A:But it's getting to the stage in my opinion where the cars and the drivers are maybe getting too fast for each other.
Speaker A:I mean they banned Group B Because it was too.
Speaker A:And the modern WRC car, a lot faster.
Speaker A:It's immeasurably faster than all.
Speaker B:But the safety is a paramount importance.
Speaker B:And you know, I've.
Speaker B:I've sat in one of these latest WRC1 cars and the safety cell, the protection for the crew.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, technology's moved on massively since the Group B days.
Speaker B:Tire technology, suspension technology, the amount of downforce these cars have, the amount of grip these cars have is just astonishing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was chatting to one of the WRC co drivers in.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:In Monty, who's recently just gone into a rally one car and he summed it up for me.
Speaker B:He said, Neil, coming from WRC2 to WRC1, it's like a different sport.
Speaker B:That's what he said to me.
Speaker B:It's like a different sport.
Speaker B:The speed, the downforce, the technology, everything involved in a WLC1 car is a step.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Of the WRC too.
Speaker B:And don't get me wrong, I have rally WRC2 cars.
Speaker B:They are really quick.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Really quick.
Speaker B:Phenomenal technology, great to drive.
Speaker B:But the WRC one's a different level.
Speaker A:And I was driven one.
Speaker B:I haven't driven one, sadly.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:If anybody wants to give me a driving one just because I'll get that on my bike.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker B:But the sport does need to change.
Speaker B:The sport needs to become more.
Speaker B:More commercialized, more accepted.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think the new regulations, car affordable, manufacturers becoming more engaged, more manufacturers, constructors are now allowed to come and enter the championship.
Speaker B:I think the sport's got a bright future.
Speaker B:We're just in a place at the moment whereby there's a little bit of uncertainty which way the promoter is going to move, etc.
Speaker B:But I've got high hopes for the sport going forward, really.
Speaker A:And with any luck, England might get a big rally back.
Speaker B:Gosh.
Speaker B:Isn't it.
Speaker B:It's catastrophic that we don't have around the wrc, isn't it?
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:But, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, one of the toughest rallies on the calendar was always the, the Rally GB Wales Rally B. I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't come back.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It would be nice to see because we do need it back.
Speaker A:I mean, England gave the world some incredible rally drivers.
Speaker B:Indeed.
Speaker A:Is it giving us a.
Speaker A:Is it giving the sport incredible rally drivers or are the British drivers struggling these days?
Speaker B:Well, I mean, you know, look at the, look at the top of the wrc.
Speaker B:You've got Alvin Evans there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, he' perhaps the most unlucky British World Rally driver.
Speaker B:Times he's been second on the WRC championship, goodness knows how many times, he absolutely deserves to win it.
Speaker B:And then you've got your up and coming guys like John Armstrong and like Josh McAler, people like that coming up through now.
Speaker B:It's just so difficult, Mark, for these guys to make the step from WRC 2 to WRC 1.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, you're relying on the likes of M Sport and Malcolm Wilson and Rich Milner there.
Speaker B:And there's their programs that they put together for these young drivers are just fantastic.
Speaker B:There's no other way in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you look at the drivers that have come through M Sport and come through that.
Speaker B:That program and that.
Speaker B:That structure likes a Thierry Newville and people like that.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of the top drivers have been there at some point, and I hope that remains.
Speaker A:And are we likely to see the Simpson name back up in lights at the top of the sport again?
Speaker B:We've got some plans.
Speaker B:I can't say too much about them just at this moment in time, but.
Speaker B:But, you know, it'd be wrong of us not to be ill, wouldn't it?
Speaker A:Neil Simpson, thanks so much for joining me on the backseat driver.
Speaker A:You're somebody I've wanted on as a guest for quite a while, but tracking you down is damned hard work at times.
Speaker B:It's been absolute pleasure, Mark.
Speaker B:I don't normally like backseat drivers, but this has been all right.
