Exploring the Timeless Allure of Hot Rods with Neil Fretwell
In this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, we explore the resurgence of hot rodding, a storied automotive tradition that continues to captivate enthusiasts worldwide. I’m joined by Neil Fretwell from the Vintage Hot Rod Association, who provides a deep dive into the history of hot rods, tracing their origins to early 20th-century America, particularly in Southern California. We discuss how hot rodding evolved from a grassroots movement into an iconic part of automotive culture, fuelled by media representation and dedicated events.
Fretwell breaks down the defining characteristics of hot rods, from their bespoke modifications to their distinctive aesthetic appeal. We also highlight the strong sense of community within the hot rodding scene, where camaraderie and a shared passion for these remarkable machines play a central role.
___
You can listen to more motoring chat in all its forms on my very own radio show on Drystone Radio
___
Visit our sponsors
Bridge House Farmhouse Tea Rooms
Mentioned in this episode:
SAS Autos
For over 20 years, Specialised Automotive Services has provided high-quality, affordable automotive maintenance and repairs. Featured in Lancashire Life and a recipient of their Auto Services Award, the company specialises in vintage and classic car restoration, auto electrical work, and general repairs. https://sas-autos.co.uk
Transcript
I'd like to introduce to the Backseat Driver radio show Neil Fretwell from the Vintage Hot Rod Association.
Speaker A:Now, anybody who watches or keeps an eye on social media cannot have failed to have seen that hot running is an increasingly popular sport.
Speaker A:I dare say it's been a sport for a long while, but that's why I've decided to invite Neil Fretwell on the show.
Speaker A:Neil, welcome to the Backseat Driver radio show.
Speaker B:Hi, Mike.
Speaker B:It's nice to be here with you.
Speaker A:Now, before we go into its increasing popularity, I mean, hot rods have been around for years because, I mean, anybody who watches films, TV or anything like that cannot have failed to have seen that hot rods are popular.
Speaker A:And I conclude in many ways they started all in.
Speaker A:It all started in America.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was really kicked off in Southern California and it was before they called them hot rods.
Speaker B:Back in the early 30s, probably the late 20s, the.
Speaker B:There were guys hopping up Model Ts, Model A, things like that, and going out to the dry lakes at Muroc, which is now Edwards Air Force Base, and doing some time trials.
Speaker B: And then in: Speaker B:And they're famous for racing at Bonnetville and running sort of 600 miles an hour.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, and they were doing that until the war, and they were.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:The model A engine was the king before the war.
Speaker B:The V8 was relatively new, but it was, it was with the, with the outbreak of war and, and soldiers going from all over America from.
Speaker B:And especially from California, meeting up and spreading the word of hot rodding to people.
Speaker B:And shortly after the war, when they came back, they, they, you know, they'd earned a lot of money whilst they was away from home.
Speaker B:The sun based in England, and they went back home with.
Speaker B:With money in their pockets.
Speaker B:And then they started, you know, making these cars go faster and faster.
Speaker B: And in: Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, they didn't look back from there.
Speaker B:You know, hot rods, I think it's still the biggest selling car magazine in the world.
Speaker B:So it all started from a guy going out to the dry lakes with some stuff.
Speaker B:He, you know, printed himself effectively.
Speaker B:Yeah, it just went from there.
Speaker B:But the term hot rod was.
Speaker B:Was obviously was considered derogatory for quite some time.
Speaker B:You know, it was, you know, you would see in papers, you know, hot rod racist hot rod crash.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Newspapers were Sensationalizing that word that they just used to call them roadsters or coops, you know, to the body style.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And often they'd be referred to as gal jobs or as hop ups.
Speaker B:Hot irons was another name.
Speaker B:So yeah, the hot rod was a derogatory term but now we celebrate it.
Speaker A:So basically the idea comes from basically just making a car go faster.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the general spirit of things is you, you get an, you get an old car, something you can afford.
Speaker B:You know, you hear stories back in the day of people buying a Model T for five bucks.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Going to a scrap yard, picking the engine of choice, putting that in there.
Speaker B:And you know, a lot of these guys were doing this stuff at home often with you know, very limited tools.
Speaker B:And it was in the, from the 20s, 30s onwards, you know, some people would produce some speed equipment and they, you know, they'd save up, put a different cylinder heads on if they had a V8, put a cam in there and you know, take it racing.
Speaker B:These were dual purpose cars in young and young guys, as I say, before the war, without a lot of money and all they wanted to do was make their old cars go fast.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So from starting with a basic car that went faster, I mean they've, they've developed into, they took on a very distinct look.
Speaker B:Didn't.
Speaker A:Because if, if memory serves, the hot rod tends to be, shall we say chopped down or, or an open top car.
Speaker A:Bigger wheels at the back than at the front and a V8 up front and a lot of the ways an exposed engine in certain instances, well that's.
Speaker B:Become sort of the standard, shall we say.
Speaker B:As I said earlier, the four cylinder from the model A was the king to start with because they used that, that engine ran for around four years and there were companies making overhead valve conversions for them.
Speaker B:Different carburetors, you know, the cam grinders out there.
Speaker B:So they were the king to start with.
Speaker B:But the V8 was gaining popularity just before the war.
Speaker B:But post war that's when it really exploded and the flathead V8 really took, took over.
Speaker B:And as you say that the look was with the fcta they used to run, they only run roadsters at their event, you see, they didn't run coops sedans or anything like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the, the roadster was the car of choice.
Speaker B:Tenders off.
Speaker B:So the wheels are open obviously saves weight, makes it more streamlined.
Speaker B:And the big and little tires is the little tires at the front again chasing the wind.
Speaker B:The big tyres at the back helped with gearing.
Speaker B:Because axles only came in a couple of different ratios.
Speaker B:If you put taller tyres on the chances are you get more speed.
Speaker B:The idea of these guys, they weren't racing from you, they weren't racing one against.
Speaker B:Well he was always on their own and they were going for flat out speeds but quite some distance.
Speaker B:So it didn't matter if it took a little longer to get there.
Speaker B:But the tool that if Lydia was if you've got enough torque in the engine it'll be able to turn the wheels at the same speed and you'll go faster because you change your ratios effectively.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So that actually now explains that because I often wondered where this idea came from of the little wheels and the big wheels and everything else.
Speaker A:And I conclude with all this they looked into the transmissions and the axles and everything else to make them go faster as well.
Speaker B:Well that's right.
Speaker B:Not so much the transmissions, although there were a couple of favorable transfers swaps they, they you could buy if you had.
Speaker B:If you had a V8 gearbox in your car from behind a flathead.
Speaker B:The, the.
Speaker B: The Gearbox's choice was: Speaker B:Do you see for, for a lightweight car.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There were some people swapping in things like the cell gearboxes again for the different ratios.
Speaker B:But in the rear end the, the thing there was there was people making them before this boat.
Speaker B: I think it was around: Speaker B:48 company called Halabrand who are known for their wheels as much as anything else developed a what's called a quick change rear axle where instead of driving into the center of the.
Speaker B:The pinion.
Speaker B:Sorry into the center of the crown wheel.
Speaker B:It drops, it goes drives underneath.
Speaker B:You get a change set of gears on the back and then it drives back in and you can change your ratios to pretty much anything you want.
Speaker B:I had one in my model A and it has a 378 ring and pinion in the axle itself.
Speaker B:But with a quick change I can within two to three minutes I can change from 411 gears to 350 gears.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know you bore them is a good for sprinting.
Speaker B:350s are good for a longer track.
Speaker B:So you know that, that, that became a popular way of doing things.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Just out of interest, how many gears did the Coys have right with the truck?
Speaker A:Because it's one of those things, you see things and you think well given the fact that they do race them against the clock over a specific distance, how many gear changes do you guys actually perform or else do they use the automatic gear transmissions.
Speaker B:Well, people are installing automatics, although you know, they do absorb a lot of power especially really.
Speaker B:I mean with a lot of the earlier engines they're not so much about the, the horsepower, it's about the torque they put out.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But a standard transmission for bottles a was a three speed and as same for the V8 selection of gears.
Speaker B:There's a huge gap on the Model A's between second and top.
Speaker B:But they're better ratios in the V8 boxes.
Speaker B:Yeah, but a lot of people these days are, are transferring in five speeds and things like that, you know, to get better range.
Speaker B:So it's better for driving on the motorways.
Speaker B:You know, roads become a lot faster than they used to be.
Speaker B:So if you, if you're traveling any distance, you know, it's nice to have a fifth gear.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I conclude like a lot of those cars back then, as you said, and possibly today, a lot of these cars are still road legal cars.
Speaker A:You can drive them about on the road as a normal vehicle.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:The, the cars are all road legal.
Speaker B:I know it often raises the question about the open wheels, but the.
Speaker B:It is something that we get away with, shall we say.
Speaker B:I've been told by a couple of road traffic officers that it's a bit of a gray area with a cancer.
Speaker B:The open wheels.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's probably much on that one really, but it's something we get.
Speaker B:We're getting older, the cars are getting older and the police are getting younger, it seems.
Speaker B:I think our cars are a little way off their radar.
Speaker B:But no, our guys, it's something we really encourage in the vintage hot road association that people use their cars.
Speaker B:You know, most of the people that go and compete at our events drive their cars, the trailers.
Speaker B:You know, they're not totally dismissed, but you'll certainly get ripped if you show up.
Speaker A:Now, which are the most popular cars because you watch a lot of these programs and it's the Ford Model A's and things like that.
Speaker A:And as you said earlier on a Model T which are the.
Speaker A:In in America, of course there would have been certain cars that were popular and as you run out of them, other cars, makes, the models will have taken over.
Speaker A:I mean, besides the early ones, which are the ones to have and which are the most desirable.
Speaker B:Well, the, the one that's considered the archetypical hot rod is the 32 Ford Roadster.
Speaker B:It was the first year for the V8, which was a game changer for Ford, but it's the one you know, you haven't got to swap the engine out, you've only got to tune the engine to get the power out of it.
Speaker B:Whereas with the earlier cars you'd have to fit a V8.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B: So the: Speaker B:It's the archetypical car.
Speaker B:But however, because of that, it's more expensive.
Speaker B:So we find in the Vintage Opera association that most people favor the Model A.
Speaker B:The thing is, as well, it's a lighter car anyway.
Speaker B:So if you perform the same amount of modifications on a flathead engine, your Model A should go quicker.
Speaker B:And the same goes if you go backwards further with a Model T that's lighter than the Model A.
Speaker B:Again, yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker B:The Model A is definitely, you know, one of the most favored cars.
Speaker B:And because of our climate, it's not Southern California.
Speaker B:Closed cars are very popular as well.
Speaker B:You know, it's not all roadsters.
Speaker B:There's a lot of coupes, there's some sedans.
Speaker B:We could be all sorts of body styles, you know, but that's the way I see it.
Speaker B:The 32 is kind of considered the archetypical, I would say the Model A is the model more popular over here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now if you look at the, shall we say, the movement in England, of course there was a.
Speaker A:With a lack of access to things like Model A's.
Speaker A:I conclude that's where the, like the Ford Prefect suddenly became popular because of, shall we say, its similarity to the American, to the, Its American equivalents.
Speaker B:Well, that's right.
Speaker B:I mean, we don't cater to the, the British stuff.
Speaker B:We do try to hang on to, you know, make everything American style.
Speaker B:That's the thing we're for.
Speaker B:But you're exactly right there because we've got a guy in the club whose name is Ken Cooper.
Speaker B:He was playing around with old V8 Fords back in the 50s and 60s, but they were few and far between.
Speaker B:So the Prefects populars, things like that, they were cheap, easy, accessible cars and very similar in setup to their bigger cousins from over the water.
Speaker B:So yeah, they became very popular.
Speaker B:And much like the speed equipment in America, there was companies over here making stuff, you know, to buy.
Speaker B:It's a company called Elva, made an overhead conversion for a little Ford pop engine and there's, you know, plenty of people making seifo parts.
Speaker B:Yeah, so, yeah, exactly the same thing.
Speaker B:You know, a couple of carburetors, some high compression, a bit of a high lift cam and, you know, you've transformed.
Speaker B:I mean, they're only weight at 8 and 10 horsepower, weren't they?
Speaker B:They were popular.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it wouldn't take much to happen from there.
Speaker A:Now, with you saying like the vintage hot Rod association likes to stick to American.
Speaker A:I mean, how do people go on getting.
Speaker A:Because I conclude over in America, they will.
Speaker A:The vintage ones will have now become quite rare, and the Americans won't be overly fond of parting with them.
Speaker B:Exactly right.
Speaker B:Mark, the cars that had history and documented history, and there's been some good historians out there doing this stuff, particularly a guy called Don Montgomery.
Speaker B:He must have been about 30 years ago now, he put out a call to go start going through people's shoeboxes of photographs to see where he could find about things.
Speaker B:And, you know, the cards became famous because of the books he wrote, really.
Speaker B:Although some of them were famous, as you've probably heard of his Kendarian cans.
Speaker B:And, you know, he's still got his cover.
Speaker B:He built in 39, funny enough, but.
Speaker B:But yeah, I mean, initially, when I.
Speaker B:I got into this about 30 years ago, it was.
Speaker B:There was company making fiberglass bodies.
Speaker B:And that's the first thing I looked at was getting a fiberglass body, because I just didn't think the original still would be available.
Speaker B:But it is out there.
Speaker B:It is out there.
Speaker B:It's getting harder to find, and it's certainly getting hard.
Speaker B:Harder to find the good stuff, as with any, you know, make and model, really, as they get older and older, you know.
Speaker B:But what was considered junk, you know, 20 years ago is now considered a good find, isn't it?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But no, there's stuff out there, and there are people replicating things in both fiberglass and steel.
Speaker B:You know, you can actually go out.
Speaker B:There's a company called Brookville, there's another one called Rodbods, I think.
Speaker B: and actually buy a brand new: Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because, I mean, what.
Speaker A:One of the programs I enjoy watching time from time to time is the American Pickers.
Speaker A:And I suppose it's like classic coys.
Speaker A:They'll be.
Speaker A:They'll be rooting and rummaging through something, through an old barn or a shed, and all of a sudden they come across a shell of one of these cars, like a Ford Model A, and they get extremely excited about finding it.
Speaker A:And then the problem is getting the guy to point with it.
Speaker B:Well, this is the thing.
Speaker B:The difference, I think, with Americans and English people is they have a lot more land than us so we find ourselves, you know, if you've got a car, you have to sell it because you can't put the car on the trip.
Speaker B:You've only got space for one car.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or, you know, obviously there are people with more room, but, you know, your average Joe, they haven't got a lot of room around the house.
Speaker B:And so, you know, you get a car, you sell a car, you get a car.
Speaker B:But in America, you tend to.
Speaker B:You tend to find that they can hang on to stuff, and especially if this stuff had little or no value at some point, you know, like any old cars, really.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Unless it's exotic because they go through a stage of being worth almost nothing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So they wouldn't part with them.
Speaker B:They park them up in the corner and that's where they stay until, you know, somebody comes knocking on Headcore, asking what they're doing with it.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I mean, it's.
Speaker B:It's the American pick.
Speaker B:It's obviously staged for TV to an extent, but the guy is it Mike, it's the league guy.
Speaker B:I mean, he's.
Speaker B:He's a very, very key hot rodder.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think he's got himself a couple of cars.
Speaker B:So, yeah, he's like the rest of us, you know, we.
Speaker B:We excited anything that you put petrol in, aren't we?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And if it's that mark you prefer, you know, then all the better.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I mean, there's old Fords all over the place in America just finding them.
Speaker A:I mean, ironically enough, you said that.
Speaker A:I was reading an article the other day about classic cars and born finds in France, and they said the exact same thing because.
Speaker A:Because, like, America, okay, it's not as big as.
Speaker A:But France is actually a huge country.
Speaker A:And they said the same thing.
Speaker A:The French.
Speaker A:The French needed.
Speaker A:Somebody in France, needed a new car.
Speaker A:They didn't trade the old one in.
Speaker A:They parked it in a barn and.
Speaker A:Or wherever because they'd such an enormous amount of space to put it in.
Speaker A:A barn didn't take up any room and they just wandered off and bought a fresh one.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that.
Speaker A:It really does explain why some of these old cars suddenly come back to light again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We visited a friend out in California, out on the west coast, and he.
Speaker B:He was walking us around this plot.
Speaker B:I think he had about seven acres.
Speaker B:A lot of it was brushland.
Speaker B:You know, he's a very, very hot part of the state.
Speaker B:But he was showing the front of his place and it was funny, he said, this is the.
Speaker B:The car my dad took to high School.
Speaker B:This is the car I took to high school.
Speaker B:And you know, it was amazing that he had all these things there, you know, I think he must have had about 12, 13 cars.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, a couple of them restored and restored very, very nicely.
Speaker B:Very talented guy with what he could do.
Speaker B:But some of the others, like his high school car was a Studebaker.
Speaker B:I think he went to high school, let's say late 60s, early 70s, something like that.
Speaker B:And this Studebaker, you know, it probably been pub for his parents when he finished school and it moved up to his place whenever he moved up there, you know, 10 years later maybe.
Speaker B:Yeah, there it sat, you know, and it had a.
Speaker B:He was into modifying stuff and probably the first car he tried to modify and it was just a simple two door Studebaker, but it had a crazy flame job on it.
Speaker B:You know, that was easy.
Speaker B:That was his kickback back then.
Speaker B:But yeah, they just didn't have to get rid of cars and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and one day it.
Speaker B:Well, not say one day.
Speaker B:Over time it turns around and they all become worse.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think, I suppose the thing is with like certain parts of France over in America, especially California, because the weather is nice, they won't deteriorate quite the same, will they?
Speaker A:I mean, they don't suddenly return to mother earth like sir, like certain cars in England do due to our at times rather damp atmosphere.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:We've got a 53 Chevy here that we bought home from California.
Speaker B:We've had it over about 12 years now.
Speaker B:And when I was first stripping it down to do some work on it, you know, the nuts and bolts come out cleanly.
Speaker B:You don't take the grill off and then it's all rusty behind.
Speaker B:I've had Mark 1 and Mark 2 consoles where they're falling apart in your hands as you start unbolting stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, but this thing, you know, all the edges are still.
Speaker B:Don't get me wrong, it's got its issues, but all, you know, most of the edges very crisp and clean and you know, it's nice to work with.
Speaker B:I was again out in the States.
Speaker B:Excuse me a second.
Speaker B:I was, I went to a scrap yard in Arizona and there was a.
Speaker B:It's a Mark 1 console and it didn't have a single rust bubble on it anywhere.
Speaker B:Sitting in the scrapyard.
Speaker B:And it's probably been there for a long time too.
Speaker A:And I conclude if you find one of these to acquire.
Speaker B:Can we just pause a second?
Speaker B:I'll just.
Speaker B:If you pull three calls, we'll come back to it.
Speaker B:Just got tickled.
Speaker B:Sorry about that.
Speaker B:I've got this terrible tickle on my throat and it's.
Speaker B:It's not Covid, but.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, don't worry about it.
Speaker A:Don't worry about it.
Speaker A:So if you.
Speaker B:Sorry about that.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, don't worry about it.
Speaker A:If you actually acquire one of these old, shall we say, a model A shell or something like that, how difficult is it to get everything to go with it, to turn it into a hot rod?
Speaker B:Well, there's a huge, huge following.
Speaker B:Model a Ford, the 57 Chevy is the most restored car in America, apparently.
Speaker B:And the most restored vintage car is the Model A.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And because of that, there's a huge aftermarket resource for parts, so you can get.
Speaker B:For restoration purposes, you can get most everything you'd need.
Speaker B:And then when it comes to hobby them up, there's guys out there doing much the same and reproducing a lot of this stuff.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, you know, and there's always the original stuff as well, you know, so it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a challenge at times, but it's.
Speaker B:It's not an impossible challenge, you know, there's lots of stuff out there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now, the one thing, as I said, I notice over here, funnily enough, I'm going back to France.
Speaker A:There is the Normandy beach races, which is dedicated to vintage hot rods and motorbikes.
Speaker A:Because I conclude the hot rodding scene does include some of the motorbikes.
Speaker A:And in England, there's the ones at Pendy Pending or Pendine sounds, depends how you want to pronounce it.
Speaker A:There's one near York.
Speaker A:I mean, what.
Speaker A:The scene seems to be expanding considerably in England and Europe.
Speaker B:I think what's happened is there's been.
Speaker B:I mean, I've been monkeying around with these things for 30 years, but there's definitely been an upsurge in things because of programs like American Pickers.
Speaker B:Then you've got all these other ones.
Speaker B:You had the Boyd Coddington show, and there's Gas Monkey Garage and all these sort of things.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And because.
Speaker B:Because they're broadcast, you know, around the world.
Speaker B:So people are picking up on this and, you know, they're seeing what they are.
Speaker B:So that.
Speaker B:I think that's raised some awareness that we.
Speaker B:From what we've been doing with the vhra, we never expected any of it.
Speaker B:When we went down to Pendine, we got so much press coverage for it.
Speaker B:And I think people realize, you know, that because hot rod in street rodding, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker B:It was always a kind of frowned upon thing, you know, quite often, you know, that you'd be upsetting with stores and stuff.
Speaker B:But I think with, with what's been on the telly and people seeing what we're doing with the cars down at Pendyne, it's.
Speaker B:It's make people realize that, you know, it is a serious hobby.
Speaker B:We are serious about what we do and we've got a foot firmly in the past when it comes to why we want to drive these cars.
Speaker B:You know, in hot rodding is certainly in America, not so much over here, but it's certainly a very, very important part of the story of the car in the 20th century.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I suppose the thing is, I mean, it's.
Speaker A:It's a little bit like restoring a car in England, a vintage car or something along those era, those lines.
Speaker A:If the car can be salvaged as it is, then don't start chopping it about.
Speaker A:But if the car or the shell is beyond restoration to what it was, turning it into a hot rod is a very legitimate way of saving the vehicle.
Speaker B:The body on my model, I didn't buy a whole car, you know, I started collecting parts for it many, many years ago.
Speaker B:The body of my car allegedly had sat in a Comet formula scrapyard for more than 30 years.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then, you know, a guy was out there, important stuff.
Speaker B:He asked me if I'd be interested in this particular one.
Speaker B:I said, I'll give it a go, you know, and it worked.
Speaker B:But yeah, I mean, quite often it's.
Speaker B:Quite often it's the stuff that other people don't want on their cars.
Speaker B:You know, it's the rough stuff.
Speaker B:That's not to say some people don't cut up some good stuff.
Speaker B:But yeah, for the most part, you know, we.
Speaker B:It's taking things that other people didn't want and, you know, building what we want out of them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Given that they made 5 million Model A's, I don't think.
Speaker A:What you were saying earlier on about certain things.
Speaker A:What is the.
Speaker A:What is the format of hot rod racing or whether it's against each other two at a time or against the clock.
Speaker A:What is the format originally the first.
Speaker B:Form of hot rod racing, as I said, but they were going out to the dry lakes in California and they were original, I think originally ran six abreast and then they sort of whittled it down to the ones who were going to get time properly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So really it was that.
Speaker B:That was deemed very dangerous because it's very dusty.
Speaker B:You can't see anything.
Speaker B:So the guy out in front's okay.
Speaker B:The five behind it could be going anywhere.
Speaker B:Eventually they settled on, you know, just one at a time, one at a time.
Speaker B:And that was the first form of hot rod racing.
Speaker B: programs going back to about: Speaker B:And then at the other side of the war, you know, as they became more and more popular, that's when they started really getting a bad name.
Speaker B:And, you know, there was street racing going on and stuff like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there it was.
Speaker B:A guy called Wally parks started the national hot rod association, and I believe it was about 80 years ago this year, and they opened Santa Ana airfield up to the hot rod racers.
Speaker B:And that's where drag racing started.
Speaker B:And they chose a quarter mile because that's about the average length of a block in America.
Speaker B:And that's where the kids were racing from stoplight to stoplight across each block, you see.
Speaker B:So that's where they came up with that one.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that was the two forms of hot rod racing.
Speaker B:There was also circle racing as well, with the midget type races and the other types, the sprint type cars.
Speaker B:But, you know, for, for the most part, you're threatened by hot rodder.
Speaker B:It would have been out of the lakes or at the drag strip.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Now, as I think I said, I mentioned, like the normandy beach races.
Speaker A:I mean, I conclude racing, racing hot rods isn't exclusive to.
Speaker A:To beaches, although it's.
Speaker A:It's suddenly proven popular.
Speaker A:I conclude if you find a beach that's got good hard sand on it, away you go.
Speaker A:Because you're not likely to hit anything on a beach, really, are you?
Speaker B:Well, we, we at pen dyne, that came to us as a bit of a gift, to be honest.
Speaker B:The whole beach racing thing is a fairly new phenomenon when it comes to hot rods.
Speaker B:You know, it wasn't something that was done back in the day.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But for us, I mean, we were aware of pendine and what the history of it was with Malcolm Campbell and Harry Thomas.
Speaker B:But it wasn't something we ever really looked at because.
Speaker B:Well, some.
Speaker B:I think someone had inquired a few years earlier and they were just told there's no way you'll be getting your cars on the beach.
Speaker B:And what it was is that there'd been an accident down there of some sort.
Speaker B:I don't know the details.
Speaker B:And the county council said that's it.
Speaker B:No more parking on the beach or anything like that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And when it went back into the community council's hands.
Speaker B:They wanted to find ways to create revenue because the car parking for Pendine, the only revenue they get is.
Speaker B:Is from car parking.
Speaker B:That's all they've got.
Speaker B:There's no other income for them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it was a conversation in the pub at the then chairman of the.
Speaker B:Of the council and a couple of friends saying, well, what should we put on?
Speaker B:And they thought, well, motorbikes and cars, obviously, because of the history of the place, but what type?
Speaker B:So one of the fellows said, how about hot rods?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the counselor went home.
Speaker B:A guy by the name of Simon Morris went home, probably a couple of pints in, and Hot rods in the uk.
Speaker B:And he went through a couple of different places, you know, looking at different websites.
Speaker B:But when he got to our website, we.
Speaker B:We ran a page and it shows all the.
Speaker B:Well, not all the members cars, those members that have sent us in some photographs.
Speaker B:And I think we've got about 40 or 50 on there.
Speaker B:And he's looked at them.
Speaker B:They're mostly open world, mostly from the 20s and 30s, you know, to the layman.
Speaker B:They look like Babs and the Bluebird, don't they?
Speaker B:You know, that's.
Speaker B:They're conjuring up that image and that's kind of what the hell outrunners were emulating.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:They wanted to look like old sports cars.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he got in touch with us and the email said, would you like to put something on on the beach?
Speaker B:Then my immediate response was, do you want to spot on a show?
Speaker B:Which I would have been interested in, because, you know, to go on such an important, you know, place, it's an absolute honor to do that.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, it's a pending.
Speaker A:Pending sounds are an historic location.
Speaker A:It's like you said, Parry, Thomas and Babs and everything else for the land speed records.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, like, Faye, he said to us, you know, so I said, you know, is it a static thing you want us to do, or is there a chance we can race on your beach?
Speaker B:And he came back and said, you can do what you like.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Immediately jumped on that one and said, right, I need to.
Speaker B:I said, it will definitely do something, but I'm gonna have to do my homework and find out what this involves.
Speaker B:Because at this point, I'd never organized an event in my life.
Speaker B:I had no.
Speaker B:You know, I've been to plenty of events and, you know, assisted at a few bits and pieces here and there.
Speaker B:Certainly never organized anything.
Speaker B:So there's a huge learning curve.
Speaker B:Coming home to Find out what you can and can't do from, you know, a legal standpoint and just going through, through everything.
Speaker B:And it was as I was beginning to organize that, that a magazine by the name of Rogers Journal dropped through my letterbox and they had pictures of what they were doing at the, the race of gentlemen.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Over in America.
Speaker B:And it was like, oh no, we're being gazumped.
Speaker B:But the, the difference is we run one car at a time on a very much longer course.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So all the other beach races you see up at Briglington, at Romo, over in Denmark, in France and in America, I believe they're doing it in Japan and possibly even Australia now.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:They're all, they're all doing it in a drag race fashion over an eighth mile.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:We at Pendine we ran a half mile long course where the cars can get flat out.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Time the cars flat out.
Speaker B:So you know, we, it's the same but very different.
Speaker B:You know, we're racing on a beach but in very, very different circumstances.
Speaker B:I believe that our event on Pendine is unique for that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:We, we are the fastest beach racing in the world, which I know there's not many beach races, but it's a nice little title to have.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now the one thing you do notice looking at all the photographs because I mean you have a very, very active Instagram page.
Speaker A:Besides the cars themselves and the, the racing of them, there's a whole lifestyle goes with them.
Speaker A:When you look at it, you think, well, it's a bit like, like me, people who own Harley Davidson's motorbikes, people who own Indian motorbikes.
Speaker A:There seems to be a definite lifestyle goes with this.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:It's one of those all consuming things for me.
Speaker B:I got into the old cars and then immediately found the rock and roll seat.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Venues like Hemsby and that were doing weekenders when they still are and you know, you went along there and that's really where I got sort of exposed to the, the whole lifestyle of things.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, American cars, there's a few hot rods, like you say, Indians, Harleys, British bikes, you know, modified in you know like caf races, something like.
Speaker B:That's more an English thing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's, it's not for everybody and it's certainly not something I tried to push at the vhra.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I won't insist that everybody has to come in, into the pits in, in period clothing, but you know, it's something that a lot of the guys and girls just do, you know.
Speaker B:It's part of, you know, what we're into.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:They say it's whole lifestyle thing, an all consuming thing.
Speaker B:Where it comes from, there's a screw loose somewhere, somewhere in the past.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:I mean I'd rather be at this end of it all looking back because you know, you get to cherry pick all the good bits.
Speaker B:Yeah, and, and none of the misery of war and famine and lord knows what else people went through back in the, in the day, you know.
Speaker B:Must have been a tough time growing up back then.
Speaker A:Well, I've always said that.
Speaker A:I mean that's the one thing about all forms of classic cars.
Speaker A:I've always said it reminds people of the, the, the, the good old days.
Speaker A:As to how good the good old days actually were still remains to be seen because I've often said at times they were probably as stressful and as demanding, as hard as they are today.
Speaker A:But people tend to forget the negative and always remember the positives about it all.
Speaker B:Well, that's not a bad thing, is it?
Speaker B:I guess, you know, it's best to remember the good and forget the bad.
Speaker B:But yeah, like I say, it's very much a lifestyle thing and like I said, we get to cherry pick the bits we like.
Speaker B:So yeah, it's a good way of coming up.
Speaker A:Now just out of interest, the Vintage Hot Rod association, strange question.
Speaker A:Do you have to actually have one to be a member or can you be a member just because you happen to be seriously into them but you just don't have the capacity to own one?
Speaker B:No, we are strictly an owners club.
Speaker B:We do get people questioning us on that one quite a bit actually.
Speaker B:I mean the original thing, when, when.
Speaker B: k in two, it was nineteen oh,: Speaker B:A group called wanted to get a bit more recognition for our style of cars, you know, the more antique style hot rods rather than the modern street rods.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So they tried to get a collective together, called it the Vindy Chalk Rod Association.
Speaker B:But it was being younger that backfired on them.
Speaker B:So they, they only really lasted a year or so and it took.
Speaker B:We often talked about resurrecting it, you know, a lot, you know, different people said we should resurrect, you know, there's a lot of cars we need to make a present.
Speaker B: And it was roundabout between: Speaker B:Yeah, no, sorry, sorry.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:I decided to sort of have a pop and see what we could do.
Speaker B:I wanted to get onto The DVLA register so we can help with registrations for, for our old cars and you know, thinking about events and things like that.
Speaker B:And within a couple of months of setting it up, printing some T shirts and you know, saying to people, you know, this is a resurrection of Benchy Chocolate association.
Speaker B:We had over 100 people sign up.
Speaker B:So, you know, I knew I was doing something right.
Speaker B:And that just went up from there.
Speaker B:The cars would.
Speaker B:Sorry, sorry to interrupt, but with the bin owners only, the idea was to make it slightly tribal and that, you know, if you saw someone in a BHRA T shirt, you know, that you knew that it was a kindred spirit.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:And roughly how many members has the VHRA got now?
Speaker B:We're currently running about 470 members.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Which is.
Speaker B:I, I often find it hard to believe it.
Speaker B:I'm the man at the end of the pen, you know, writing out the membership cards.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it just amazes me that there's that many people running traditional style hot rods.
Speaker B:And quite often, you know, as is the case with most old car people, there's more than one car in the garage as well, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's amazing to think, you know, there could be closer.
Speaker B:We've got members in Europe, in America as well.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But you know, it's mostly in the uk.
Speaker B:It's amazing to think there's, you know, probably a potential of a thousand hot rods, customs, whatever you want to call them in, in garages or on driveways in this country.
Speaker B:It's incredible really.
Speaker A:Now, besides Pending Sands, I mean, how many events do you guys have a year?
Speaker B:We put on three events a year.
Speaker B:We have Pendon, which is obviously our jewel in the crown.
Speaker B:We host another one, which is for members only.
Speaker B:It's a nice little private event at Prescott Hill.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:Which is called Gal.
Speaker B:We had that last weekend actually and it went very, very well.
Speaker A:I must ask you, what does go stand for?
Speaker B:It's a, it simply means go.
Speaker B: to opium dealers in the late: Speaker B:But, but it meant if he was high on, on opium, that for, for hot rod purposes.
Speaker B:They, they, they use the word gal as a bastardization of the word go.
Speaker B:Basically.
Speaker B:A gal job was a go job.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And I've always liked the word gal.
Speaker B:And I, I said if I, if I ever produce anything or put an event or anything like that, I'd like to use it as that.
Speaker B:So that's, that's simply where that comes From.
Speaker B:It's just a.
Speaker B:It's just a slang word for go.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And where's your third one?
Speaker B: e, we host a swap meet at the: Speaker B:The traditional end of things.
Speaker B: It's a: Speaker B:It's gone from my head for a second where it is.
Speaker B:It's Ramsey.
Speaker B:Ramsey, that's the one.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Ramsey in Cambridgeshire.
Speaker B:And yeah, basically it's just a bring and buy sell for old parts, old American car parts, anything that sort of suits the ear of the vhra.
Speaker B:You know, there'll be people trading all sorts of things, garage stuff and all kinds of everything.
Speaker B:So, yeah, we've got that one as well now.
Speaker A:It's only once they get in touch with you guys, I'll.
Speaker A:I will guess that it's your Instagram page, vhra.
Speaker A:But how come you mentioned it was your website?
Speaker B:Our website's just www.vhra.co.uk yeah.
Speaker B:And there's everything you need to know about the association on there.
Speaker B:Rules for joining, pictures of members, cars.
Speaker B:There's a news page.
Speaker B:We don't run a newsletter.
Speaker B:I put everything up on the.
Speaker B:On the website for all to see.
Speaker B:And so we've got quite a strong online presence.
Speaker B:And as you say, you know, we're on Instagram and Facebook as well.
Speaker B:I try to put something up most days Instagram, because we're really lucky.
Speaker B:We've got a great bunch of photographers that follow us around and they're really generous sharing their work with us.
Speaker B:So, you know, we look an Instagram page that's got.
Speaker B:We've got around 20,000 followers at the moment, but it's all down to those guys taking those incredible photographs.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I must say, Neil, you've explained certain things like why they have big wheels at the back and not at the front and why things are a quarter of a mile and that's been present.
Speaker A:All of a sudden you suddenly realize why certain things are.
Speaker A:But that's been absolutely fantastic, Neil.
Speaker B:I'm glad it's been informative to you, Mark.
Speaker B:Sometimes, you know, the answers are much simpler than you anticipate.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, because you look into things, you often think, I wonder why they do everything a quarter of a mile.
Speaker A:Now I know it's the distance of a block in the States.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But Neil Fretwell, thank you very, very much for joining me on the Backseat Driver radio show.
Speaker A:It's been.
Speaker A:Been a pleasure chatting with you, Mark.
Speaker B:It's been great fun talking about stuff.
Speaker A:Thanks very much indeed.
